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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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urea hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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can I reach it it's good to see you

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again welcome to the zone hey Stefan of

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course I'm always love to be back in the

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zone back in the zone I'm still sort of

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almost sort of over my jet lag it was a

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bit bumpy but uh oh yeah I'll you've

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just come back from Perth haven't ya

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well actually I'm just about to go to

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Perth ah it's that right I know I all

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these time zones are driving me crazy we

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hear a bit more about that later all the

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rain she and I are often see I've just

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been so swept up in the hype about you

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going to Perth that I thought that you'd

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already been that's how excited I am

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well by the time we do the next show in

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a couple of weeks I'll you would have

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been and if you're listening to the

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listen to this show right now on your

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podcast in a couple of weeks time you

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would have also been even though you

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haven't quite been yet my own been yet

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but if you're listening to this in a few

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weeks it's all over yeah that's fine and

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it was great wasn't it it was fantastic

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fabulous thanks for all the people who

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came to see me at Perth and operate you

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more about that later than is actually

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skeptic zone show number 41 44 the 31st

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the joy yep the shows in its 40s oh my

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goodness that's pretty good going there

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it's a probably almost as long as

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seinfeld wind isn't it Oh getting close

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easily what's good to have you along and

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what are we got in in store today it's

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bit of a kind of a routine show but with

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a lot of excitement oh yeah yeah well

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back to the good old format we've got an

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interview with joe nickell now Joe is a

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famed legendary psychic and paranormal

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investigator oh isn't it funny he was

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that I'd say the dinner party and you

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introduced it as a famous psychic and

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paranormal and then someone butted in

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and offered him some hors d'oeuvres they

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get the wrong impression it would but

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Joe would sort them out pretty quick

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over he would yes yes sir he's he's been

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around for quite a while hasn't he yeah

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something like 30 years or something

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without investigating monsters and

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ghosts and oddities and give us the

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stories to tell oh he does he does so

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we'll catch up with him in a moment in

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here we've got a book review at Kylie

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Sturgis and over there in Perth does a

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book review about the Monty Hall problem

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do you know about

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I i must admit as arrow died and

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well-read as I am I haven't heard of

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that one this is where you're on a game

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show and there are three doors yep

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there's a car behind one door and goats

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behind the other two doors right it's

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rylan it's a hungry you are which one

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you want to be that's right and the host

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says you choose a door they say I have

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door number one yep no says well I'm not

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going to open door number one but i will

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open door number three in the opens door

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three and there's a goat all rights and

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then he says now i'll let you either go

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with your original choice or change huh

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what I can I would think that there

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wouldn't make any difference but it

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turns out but changing your mind and

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going with the other door increases your

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chances of winning is that right well

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that's the big argument as your argument

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oh I guess it depends on the other

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policy of the game show that's not where

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they like people to win or lose and how

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convincing their the host is but that's

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fascinating yeah now that's followed by

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a grain of salt with the runs together

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looking at jr. jr. jr. skeptics

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skeptical kids I skeptical here's a good

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to see dr. reaches back with dr. ray

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cheer reports looking some of the more

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zany and wacky goings honor the

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anti-vaccination great oh yes and can we

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just add we did a bit of a survey

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recently and then and Aaron and dr. H

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came out rather favorably they did this

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a little online survey a lot of people

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like those two segments very much I know

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we were very disappointed where we

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Richard we were but they did like your

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music oh that's nice now will we

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actually feel some very good feedback

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from the show so we're really handy

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young and and enthused to keep going we

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will let's just because of the positive

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feedback will keep going let's get into

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it to RIT well before we do that oh my

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gosh oh of course we've got the think

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tank oh yes of course we do now hold on

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to your horses let's get into it let's

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Joe Nickell is a prominent skeptical

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investigator of the paranormal he also

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works as an historical document

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consultant and has helped expose such

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famous forgeries as the Jack the Ripper

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Diaries and the ad off Hitler Diaries

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Joe is a senior research fellow at the

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Center for inquiry formerly the

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committee for scientific investigations

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of claims of the paranormal and writes

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regularly for their journal The

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Skeptical Inquirer he has also worked

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professionally as a private investigator

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journalist University instructor and is

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the author of many books and we're still

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here the amazing meeting 10-7 in Las

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Vegas and I'm catching up with the

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paranormal investigator John Nichol hi

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Joe how are you I'm not bad jet legs

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caught up with me a little bit oh I know

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it's a story of my life you would know

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now you've gone to amazing places around

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the world to do your investigations of

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claims of the paranormal including yes

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Australia yes great great time in two

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thousand in Australia and traveled

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around trying to eat one of each of your

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animals and investigating such mysteries

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as the mahogany ship and spiritualism

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and the fabled Yali and other mysteries

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and had just the best time and hoped to

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be invited back but I've also been to

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South America to Brazil and and to

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Argentina to to Peru so I I've travelled

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quite extensively and throughout North

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America Europe part of Asia North Africa

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now I was at your talk yesterday which

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was very well received about what you do

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in your philosophy in your approach and

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you had some very good advice for

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especially the younger skeptic starting

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out there and the less experienced month

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we

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because you as you and I both know a lot

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of people out there call themselves

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skeptics but they're simply naysayers

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which is does our side of the equation

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no end of damage doesn't yes it does if

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we're going to fault the so-called true

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believers for beginning with the answer

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and working backward to the evidence to

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be equally critical of skeptics doing

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the same thing we must not start with

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the answer that we like or believe and

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then look for for the evidence we need

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to first be looking for good evidence in

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a case and then letting that evidence

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lead us to an answer and then and then

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believe that whether whether we like it

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or not yeah and I mean the the skeptic

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who dismisses ghosts or monsters is

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probably more likely to be correct than

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the true believer who readily embraces

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them but it's it's really a dishonest

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habit of mind to dismiss something in

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advance of inquiring into it and even if

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you say well but how many haunted houses

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do you have to go into before you

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realize there aren't any ghosts there

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well I would phrase the question a

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little differently I would say well if

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the question is are there ghosts or

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aren't that might be a reasonable

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attitude but I don't think that's the

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question and people look at me like

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you've lost your mind of course that's

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the issue there go sir there or not as

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you know for me the issue is do people

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in huge numbers believe they're ghosts

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well yes they do yeah well then if if

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that's the case it behooves us to pay

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attention to that issue and if they have

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some mystery that concerns them we

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should try to explain it not just

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dismiss it otherwise why are we

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bothering at all yeah so I'm I'm

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inclined to think that

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the squeaking wheel gets the grease if

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if there's a haunted house a Bigfoot

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report flying saucer and that's getting

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a lot of attention then I say okay let's

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lets us give it some attention yeah

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let's not just hoot at it or dismiss it

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or make fun of people know if there's a

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question if it's an easy question to

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solve well by all means let us read in

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and solve it if even we're not sure

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what's going on if it's rather puzzling

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and we've not seen something quite like

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it yes maybe we don't think it's a

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miracle or we don't think it's a ghost

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but let's just set that aside let's just

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set that aside the issue is what is it

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that's causing that phenomenon why don't

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we and once we explain it I'm confident

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that if we can actually explain the

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mystery any needed debunking will take

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care of itself yes sort of automatically

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more or less yeah yeah so you don't have

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to sit out to debunk and also a lot of

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people um I've certainly encountered

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this when you come along to investigate

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or whatever a lot of people have their

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minds made up about you before you set

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your foot in the door that this man this

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mr. skeptic has come here to to Devon to

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debug yeah to say I don't care what you

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say I know this isn't real I'm going to

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prove it to you that's not really no I'm

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happy to say that in your case and I try

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in my case that's that's not true we

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really do go in with well let's see

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what's happening here but I'm sure that

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it's hard to get that through to people

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have you found them yeah absolutely is

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very it's very difficult people have

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have their sense of of things and it's

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very hard to to convince them otherwise

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but I think when we skeptics are at our

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best and we do listen and we look for

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for the best evidence and we let that

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evidence lead us to an answer on that we

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when we can we respect people that's not

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to say that the the fraud artist the

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phony I won't kick in the teeth I don't

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know what I thought but you don't like

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using the word fraud especially no I in

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a specific

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case I mean we know that fraud exists

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and we know there's fraud in the

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paranormal in a specific case we have to

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be careful about using word fraud

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because historically you know there were

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cases where a skeptic would accuse a

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fortune teller of being a fraud well

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what he meant was maybe I don't think

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she can really tell fortunes and so

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she's not genuine yeah but that's not

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what fraud means in law it means

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deliberately and knowingly being

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deceptive for the purpose of money and a

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lot of fortune tellers may be sincere

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believers that they have special powers

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that's my take I the angle i take is the

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most of them i've encountered to my best

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judging ability austin seeing our

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00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:39,669
sincere they can i joke sometimes i'll

269
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:42,569
say there there are two types of

270
00:11:51,689 --> 00:11:48,480
psychics those who have no psychic power

271
00:11:54,389 --> 00:11:51,699
but who believe they do and call them

272
00:11:56,609 --> 00:11:54,399
fantasize errs the other type also has

273
00:11:58,979 --> 00:11:56,619
no psychic power they know they don't

274
00:12:02,069 --> 00:11:58,989
and we call them you know charlatans

275
00:12:06,569 --> 00:12:02,079
yeah but knowing which is which is is

276
00:12:09,929 --> 00:12:06,579
not so glib not so easy to say I'm not a

277
00:12:11,249 --> 00:12:09,939
human lie detector and so whenever I can

278
00:12:13,739 --> 00:12:11,259
and give people the benefit of the doubt

279
00:12:17,669 --> 00:12:13,749
it's much more useful for us when we can

280
00:12:20,549 --> 00:12:17,679
show rather than trying to show it's in

281
00:12:22,739 --> 00:12:20,559
that person's mind we say look I can

282
00:12:25,199 --> 00:12:22,749
show you they they are not psychic are

283
00:12:27,059 --> 00:12:25,209
they they're not seeing the future and

284
00:12:30,029 --> 00:12:27,069
that's why I sometimes as you know I

285
00:12:35,659 --> 00:12:30,039
wear disguises or I create false

286
00:12:42,569 --> 00:12:35,669
personas and I go and if the person is

287
00:12:44,669 --> 00:12:42,579
unable to penetrate my falsehood that I

288
00:12:48,059 --> 00:12:44,679
can see they're not very psychic yeah

289
00:12:50,849 --> 00:12:48,069
they should be saying oh I'm getting bad

290
00:12:52,390 --> 00:12:50,859
vibes here I'm seeing I'm seeing the

291
00:12:55,270 --> 00:12:52,400
name Nikolai me

292
00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:55,280
you know so forth but in fact when they

293
00:13:00,610 --> 00:12:58,010
when they buy my persona and start

294
00:13:02,950 --> 00:13:00,620
giving the readings that would apply to

295
00:13:05,860 --> 00:13:02,960
the false persona and not the real me I

296
00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:05,870
know that they're not they're not really

297
00:13:11,830 --> 00:13:08,570
psychic no I I may not know that they're

298
00:13:13,890 --> 00:13:11,840
deliberately trying to hoodwink me but

299
00:13:16,630 --> 00:13:13,900
does it really matter the main thing is

300
00:13:20,050 --> 00:13:16,640
as to show that they're not successful

301
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:20,060
and i will say that I've spent much of

302
00:13:26,620 --> 00:13:22,490
my life going to fortune tellers yeah

303
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:26,630
from the 60s 22 today is certainly 40

304
00:13:33,130 --> 00:13:31,040
years of doing this and for me now one

305
00:13:36,250 --> 00:13:33,140
of the poignant things that I'm looking

306
00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:36,260
back on with all this is in 2003 I

307
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:42,710
learned I had all these years from 1967

308
00:13:51,730 --> 00:13:46,330
I had a daughter I didn't know about and

309
00:13:55,930 --> 00:13:51,740
not one fortune teller a straw roofs

310
00:14:00,790 --> 00:13:55,940
psychic diviner clairvoyant not one of

311
00:14:02,740 --> 00:14:00,800
them ever said you know you need to be

312
00:14:04,570 --> 00:14:02,750
aware that you have a daughter you don't

313
00:14:07,210 --> 00:14:04,580
know about and her name is such and such

314
00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:07,220
an issue so and so would that have been

315
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:09,440
wonderful and wouldn't that have been

316
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:12,800
convincing no they didn't know it

317
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:15,410
because I didn't know yeah they know

318
00:14:20,410 --> 00:14:17,450
what you know yeah and they're cleverly

319
00:14:22,180 --> 00:14:20,420
able to fish out information and

320
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:22,190
interpret it and get you to play that

321
00:14:28,630 --> 00:14:26,050
game and they may not do it shrigley and

322
00:14:32,290 --> 00:14:28,640
deceptively they may they believe they

323
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:32,300
say a lot of things and some of it yes

324
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:33,770
what it sticks when you say they

325
00:14:37,060 --> 00:14:35,570
cleverly do it now i agree there are

326
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:37,070
some something out there i've seen

327
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:39,890
myself who can cleverly do it yes but i

328
00:14:45,940 --> 00:14:44,000
must say there are a lot of psychics or

329
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:45,950
fortune tellers or what have you who do

330
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:49,130
it in a very clumsy manner yes still get

331
00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:51,440
good reason they do yeah and I remember

332
00:15:01,960 --> 00:14:58,130
once a psychic that my old colleague dr.

333
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:01,970
robert baker and now passed on but he he

334
00:15:05,170 --> 00:15:04,490
was a great ghost hunter and skeptic and

335
00:15:06,910 --> 00:15:05,180
we did

336
00:15:09,010 --> 00:15:06,920
look together and great we were great

337
00:15:11,860 --> 00:15:09,020
friends and colleagues for many years

338
00:15:13,180 --> 00:15:11,870
and we decided on this particular

339
00:15:15,790 --> 00:15:13,190
psychic who was getting a lot of

340
00:15:17,410 --> 00:15:15,800
attention in our area we thought one

341
00:15:18,940 --> 00:15:17,420
let's just take him would just take him

342
00:15:21,070 --> 00:15:18,950
out to lunch and they feel agree to go

343
00:15:22,570 --> 00:15:21,080
out with us buy him a nice lunch and

344
00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:22,580
chat with him and so we thought that was

345
00:15:26,620 --> 00:15:24,590
a great idea the psychic agreed we took

346
00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:26,630
him out had a nice lunch and now it's

347
00:15:31,810 --> 00:15:29,750
conversation I asked uh psychic at one

348
00:15:36,610 --> 00:15:31,820
point I said would you be willing to

349
00:15:39,730 --> 00:15:36,620
have your abilities tested oh no he said

350
00:15:41,860 --> 00:15:39,740
I don't test well hmm well I mean

351
00:15:43,570 --> 00:15:41,870
without being employed I sort of smiled

352
00:15:47,380 --> 00:15:43,580
and I said well but you see the problem

353
00:15:50,620 --> 00:15:47,390
now because if you say you don't test

354
00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:50,630
well then I'm going to have to ask why

355
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:52,550
you think you're psychic yeah in other

356
00:15:56,860 --> 00:15:55,010
words if we can't to actually show that

357
00:16:00,900 --> 00:15:56,870
you have this ability why do you think

358
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:00,910
of it and he said oh that's simple

359
00:16:09,010 --> 00:16:05,570
people tell me how accurate I am and so

360
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:09,020
it's easy to see there that you could

361
00:16:16,060 --> 00:16:13,730
just believe that you have some psychic

362
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:16,070
ability you just say whatever comes into

363
00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:18,880
your mind and you maybe subconsciously

364
00:16:24,220 --> 00:16:21,440
assessing the guys manner of dress and

365
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:24,230
some little cues and things that he said

366
00:16:29,860 --> 00:16:28,010
maybe you met him the 10 minutes ago he

367
00:16:31,870 --> 00:16:29,870
made some comment that would indicate

368
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:31,880
he's a bachelor or something but you

369
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:34,130
don't consciously you're not aware of

370
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:35,930
all this but you're just saying what

371
00:16:39,430 --> 00:16:37,490
comes into your mind you seem to know

372
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:39,440
these things yeah and I'm using your

373
00:16:44,020 --> 00:16:42,170
intuition and it's that's probably a

374
00:16:46,060 --> 00:16:44,030
little better than pure guessing you

375
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:46,070
probably aren't picking up some cues and

376
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:47,570
clues and things without being aware of

377
00:16:54,670 --> 00:16:52,010
it yeah and so however crudely in an

378
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:54,680
artfully you may be doing it you are

379
00:16:59,740 --> 00:16:57,170
kind of the putting out some information

380
00:17:04,450 --> 00:16:59,750
for people and they may respond to it

381
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:04,460
and if they're a believer and they they

382
00:17:10,660 --> 00:17:07,250
pick and choose they if you say

383
00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:10,670
something mistaken they may say them

384
00:17:13,060 --> 00:17:12,710
each challenge I don't know i don't have

385
00:17:57,100 --> 00:17:13,070
a

386
00:17:59,110 --> 00:17:57,110
the Riley the fish is well known which

387
00:18:00,970 --> 00:17:59,120
is a fun and who cares it's it that's

388
00:18:02,620 --> 00:18:00,980
great fun then I thought to myself well

389
00:18:05,170 --> 00:18:02,630
maybe I can adapt us i'll call this the

390
00:18:07,510 --> 00:18:05,180
fishy cycle web when somebody comes to

391
00:18:09,850 --> 00:18:07,520
see a fortune teller or a psychic they

392
00:18:11,770 --> 00:18:09,860
usually sold before they set step foot

393
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:11,780
into the door they're sold on the idea

394
00:18:16,060 --> 00:18:14,330
of personally coming to see and you're

395
00:18:17,890 --> 00:18:16,070
right they will distort and manipulate

396
00:18:21,010 --> 00:18:17,900
and twist things in the mind to make it

397
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:21,020
all fit now they'll go away and tell

398
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:22,640
their friends what a great psychic this

399
00:18:26,590 --> 00:18:25,010
was and their friends come back and the

400
00:18:28,330 --> 00:18:26,600
original client will come back and tell

401
00:18:30,810 --> 00:18:28,340
the psychic you were so wonderful last

402
00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:30,820
time reinforcement reinforcement

403
00:18:36,190 --> 00:18:34,310
absolutely so of course I can't blame

404
00:18:39,310 --> 00:18:36,200
them someone for absolutely believing

405
00:18:41,290 --> 00:18:39,320
yeah that's right then so it makes our

406
00:18:43,780 --> 00:18:41,300
makes our work even more difficult

407
00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:43,790
because it would be so easy if they were

408
00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:46,310
all fakes and charlatans we could just

409
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:47,840
catch them at their trips in a good

410
00:18:54,220 --> 00:18:51,650
shape well that's another point the good

411
00:18:56,410 --> 00:18:54,230
ones out there the good charlatans I'll

412
00:19:00,430 --> 00:18:56,420
say have learnt and maybe some of them

413
00:19:02,620 --> 00:19:00,440
are learnt from the peter Popoff episode

414
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:02,630
you don't have to use gimmicks or tricks

415
00:19:07,030 --> 00:19:04,880
Road better that you don't yeah I mean

416
00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:07,040
when you look back at history of

417
00:19:14,590 --> 00:19:09,710
spiritualism and you know in the 19th

418
00:19:16,330 --> 00:19:14,600
century let's say from the the latter

419
00:19:17,940 --> 00:19:16,340
part of the 19th century into their

420
00:19:20,890 --> 00:19:17,950
early 20th century there were lots of

421
00:19:23,250 --> 00:19:20,900
trance mediums who did physical

422
00:19:26,049 --> 00:19:23,260
phenomena and they would there would be

423
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:26,059
spirit materializations and dark room

424
00:19:31,779 --> 00:19:28,130
silences and spirits would write on on

425
00:19:35,169 --> 00:19:31,789
slates produce magical spirit writing

426
00:19:38,409 --> 00:19:35,179
and objects would be at ported they were

427
00:19:41,289 --> 00:19:38,419
said they would appear yes tables out of

428
00:19:44,380 --> 00:19:41,299
nowhere flowers and other airports and

429
00:19:46,060 --> 00:19:44,390
and myriad other phenomena physical

430
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:46,070
phenomena and the problem with the

431
00:19:52,389 --> 00:19:49,520
physical phenomenon was that you could

432
00:19:54,399 --> 00:19:52,399
be caught doing these magic basically

433
00:19:56,649 --> 00:19:54,409
magic tricks in the dark yeah which

434
00:19:58,289 --> 00:19:56,659
suddenly whoa and yes someone like

435
00:20:01,090 --> 00:19:58,299
ghedini might whip out a flashlight

436
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:01,100
someone might grab your hand but my

437
00:20:07,299 --> 00:20:04,730
point yeah this spiritualist used to do

438
00:20:09,310 --> 00:20:07,309
these physical this what's called

439
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:09,320
physical mediumship and the problem with

440
00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:10,850
it was that they could be caught

441
00:20:14,830 --> 00:20:12,590
red-handed someone who grabbed their

442
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:14,840
their hand or turn on a light and catch

443
00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:17,600
them faking the phenomena so now we have

444
00:20:24,820 --> 00:20:21,049
this mental mediumship we're we're

445
00:20:27,130 --> 00:20:24,830
certain practitioners can do readings

446
00:20:29,409 --> 00:20:27,140
under the bright lights of television

447
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:29,419
they no longer need the dark rooms and

448
00:20:33,940 --> 00:20:31,610
yeah and they're just playing mind games

449
00:20:36,220 --> 00:20:33,950
they're fishing for information throwing

450
00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:36,230
out things hoping that you will pick and

451
00:20:41,409 --> 00:20:38,720
choose and interpret things to fit you

452
00:20:44,529 --> 00:20:41,419
and they goodbye with us and they cannot

453
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:44,539
be caught basically cannot be caught

454
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:46,730
doing actual tricks now we did catch I

455
00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:49,490
was working with Dateline NBC and we did

456
00:20:57,159 --> 00:20:53,600
catch John Edward the famous died we

457
00:20:59,799 --> 00:20:57,169
caught him revealing information and it

458
00:21:01,870 --> 00:20:59,809
had a reading that in fact we know he

459
00:21:04,570 --> 00:21:01,880
had earlier in the day we know he got

460
00:21:07,539 --> 00:21:04,580
that information the person that's set

461
00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:07,549
on it for a while and that's that's

462
00:21:12,580 --> 00:21:09,440
clear and so I think we caught him

463
00:21:16,389 --> 00:21:12,590
cheating he's tried to wriggle out of it

464
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:16,399
but not very successfully but by and

465
00:21:22,370 --> 00:21:19,760
large the the mental mediumship

466
00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:22,380
safer it's an it's very interesting

467
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:24,240
situation for us human we're trying to

468
00:21:28,250 --> 00:21:25,440
put our point of view to the general

469
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:28,260
public because there's nothing for them

470
00:21:32,570 --> 00:21:30,510
now to latch on to like look if I cut

471
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:32,580
this strain it falls down oh it's a

472
00:21:37,460 --> 00:21:35,130
trick all right and you can explain that

473
00:21:39,470 --> 00:21:37,470
very simply or if it's someone with a

474
00:21:41,150 --> 00:21:39,480
pole in the dark with these things that

475
00:21:44,570 --> 00:21:41,160
appear or disappear but when we're

476
00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:44,580
talking now about the flow of cold

477
00:21:49,820 --> 00:21:47,910
reading for example you can't just nail

478
00:21:53,810 --> 00:21:49,830
that in one quick center let's further

479
00:21:56,419 --> 00:21:53,820
to the untrained and that's that's where

480
00:21:59,000 --> 00:21:56,429
they have a big advantage I can't keep

481
00:22:01,880 --> 00:21:59,010
doing this due to them in person says oh

482
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:01,890
I understand it now I what I'm trying to

483
00:22:07,100 --> 00:22:03,450
do with a lot of phenomena now has

484
00:22:09,919 --> 00:22:07,110
explained it as explain to people how we

485
00:22:12,290 --> 00:22:09,929
all are fooled by illusions so that at

486
00:22:13,820 --> 00:22:12,300
my first haunted house of mckinsey house

487
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:13,830
in toronto people were hearing footsteps

488
00:22:17,950 --> 00:22:16,290
on the stairs late at night turned out

489
00:22:21,410 --> 00:22:17,960
there actually hearing footsteps on a

490
00:22:24,110 --> 00:22:21,420
staircase next door that was just a few

491
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:24,120
inches away same staircase to a wool was

492
00:22:27,980 --> 00:22:26,250
it is is actually a small passageway

493
00:22:30,530 --> 00:22:27,990
between the two buildings but close

494
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:30,540
enough to to resonate and make the sound

495
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:33,690
or people seeing a long-necked

496
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:36,690
undulating serpentine creature on on a

497
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:38,640
lake like Lake Okanagan in British

498
00:22:45,919 --> 00:22:42,570
Columbia or or or Newfoundlands like

499
00:22:48,620 --> 00:22:45,929
crescent and realizing that that in some

500
00:22:50,419 --> 00:22:48,630
cases is two or three or four otters

501
00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:50,429
swimming in a line yeah I'm creating

502
00:22:54,590 --> 00:22:52,110
this illusion of one long creature

503
00:22:57,710 --> 00:22:54,600
slithering through the water or any of a

504
00:23:01,610 --> 00:22:57,720
number of other things we even psychics

505
00:23:04,370 --> 00:23:01,620
doing this trick of retrofitting that is

506
00:23:06,919 --> 00:23:04,380
saying when someone's missing they say I

507
00:23:09,650 --> 00:23:06,929
see water I see the number seven and so

508
00:23:12,340 --> 00:23:09,660
forth and then after the person is the

509
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:12,350
missing person's body is found they

510
00:23:19,490 --> 00:23:17,520
interpret the the information to fit so

511
00:23:21,620 --> 00:23:19,500
they say well water I mentioned water

512
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:21,630
there's a creek lake a pond it's so

513
00:23:24,750 --> 00:23:23,760
forth and so showing you how these sort

514
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:24,760
of illusions

515
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:27,520
something looks like they told this had

516
00:23:31,620 --> 00:23:29,170
a vision of where the body was but they

517
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:31,630
they're really counting on us to match

518
00:23:37,860 --> 00:23:34,570
up and showing how these techniques work

519
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:37,870
I think is very important for skeptics

520
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:40,090
to be able to do understanding them

521
00:23:47,810 --> 00:23:43,690
these illusions and realizing we also

522
00:23:51,050 --> 00:23:47,820
are capable of a pool and trying to to

523
00:23:53,250 --> 00:23:51,060
explain either the trick of mind or the

524
00:23:55,410 --> 00:23:53,260
assumption that sort of thing and since

525
00:23:57,330 --> 00:23:55,420
seeing that we're all vulnerable yeah

526
00:24:00,170 --> 00:23:57,340
that's that's that's absolutely true and

527
00:24:02,610 --> 00:24:00,180
well I'm in the interesting position

528
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:02,620
like himself of encountering these

529
00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:04,510
things and trying to explain these

530
00:24:09,410 --> 00:24:06,910
things so it's an interesting life it

531
00:24:13,470 --> 00:24:09,420
really is i enjoy it too it is i

532
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:13,480
thoroughly enjoy this work now if our

533
00:24:18,090 --> 00:24:15,970
listeners want to find out more about

534
00:24:19,620 --> 00:24:18,100
you and way you write for the skeptic

535
00:24:22,230 --> 00:24:19,630
The Skeptical Inquirer skeptical

536
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:22,240
Inquirer and they can go to my personal

537
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:26,650
website WWJ nickel spell it correctly in

538
00:24:33,930 --> 00:24:30,490
IC ke LOL calm and you can check out my

539
00:24:36,810 --> 00:24:33,940
blogs and you can see some of my many

540
00:24:39,420 --> 00:24:36,820
personas that is over the years and and

541
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:39,430
my books and how do people get hold of

542
00:24:44,550 --> 00:24:41,410
your books they can actually go to my

543
00:24:46,740 --> 00:24:44,560
website see the various I don't know 25

544
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:46,750
or 30 books I've written and click on

545
00:24:50,430 --> 00:24:48,610
them and they'll take you to a place

546
00:24:53,370 --> 00:24:50,440
where you can buy the book they're all

547
00:24:56,850 --> 00:24:53,380
my books I'm happy to say all my books

548
00:25:00,000 --> 00:24:56,860
are in print still only one of my books

549
00:25:01,380 --> 00:25:00,010
went out of print is back okay well Joe

550
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:01,390
Nickell it's been an absolute pleasure

551
00:25:06,420 --> 00:25:03,370
to meet you once again because we didn't

552
00:25:08,580 --> 00:25:06,430
meet briefly in two thousand and yes so

553
00:25:10,530 --> 00:25:08,590
glory yes good to see you again and

554
00:25:22,580 --> 00:25:10,540
thanks for appearing on the skeptics in

555
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:25,590
hi I'm Alice to take clothes through the

556
00:25:29,580 --> 00:25:27,450
new by weekly podcast the

557
00:25:31,950 --> 00:25:29,590
pseudo-scientists the official podcast

558
00:25:34,260 --> 00:25:31,960
of the youngster alien skeptics john

559
00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:34,270
elliott birch daily breeders jason ball

560
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:37,360
Jack Scanlon hey rush and myself to hear

561
00:25:41,549 --> 00:25:39,250
what our generation have to say backpack

562
00:25:44,610 --> 00:25:41,559
Yuri science and the issues they concern

563
00:25:56,850 --> 00:25:44,620
us subscribe to our podcast located that

564
00:26:04,549 --> 00:25:56,860
young as skeptics calm little take this

565
00:26:09,870 --> 00:26:07,230
hello this is a run segev taking life

566
00:26:12,150 --> 00:26:09,880
with a grain of salt when I was about

567
00:26:14,460 --> 00:26:12,160
four my father would take me out almost

568
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:14,470
every night before bed time to look at

569
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:17,410
the night sky equipped only with a small

570
00:26:21,780 --> 00:26:19,210
Reader's Digest guide to the night sky

571
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:21,790
and a lot of enthusiasm he would tell me

572
00:26:25,860 --> 00:26:23,679
the stories of Cassiopeia the Big Dipper

573
00:26:28,620 --> 00:26:25,870
and the Little Dipper the North Star and

574
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:28,630
many other celestial objects my father

575
00:26:32,460 --> 00:26:30,400
could not even be considered an amateur

576
00:26:34,590 --> 00:26:32,470
astronomer his knowledge was very

577
00:26:36,570 --> 00:26:34,600
limited he could not identify planets

578
00:26:39,150 --> 00:26:36,580
other than Venus and definitely knew

579
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:39,160
very little astrophysics what he lacked

580
00:26:43,770 --> 00:26:41,370
in knowledge he filled with curiosity

581
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:43,780
enthusiasm and delighted the wonders of

582
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:46,510
nature without intending it or knowing

583
00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:48,640
where he would lead he had instilled in

584
00:26:53,730 --> 00:26:50,710
me a lifelong passion for astronomy and

585
00:26:56,010 --> 00:26:53,740
for science in general that in turn led

586
00:26:58,710 --> 00:26:56,020
to a skeptical mindset into a tendency

587
00:27:00,180 --> 00:26:58,720
to think critically those listeners who

588
00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:00,190
have children or planning to have

589
00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:02,320
children may sometimes wonder what they

590
00:27:06,539 --> 00:27:04,030
might be able to do to ensure their

591
00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:06,549
children become critical thinkers I know

592
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:08,110
that there are also those who consider

593
00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:10,570
such a notion to be wrong seeing it as a

594
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:13,200
type of indoctrination but I disagree

595
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:15,490
teaching a child to think critically is

596
00:27:19,650 --> 00:27:18,130
providing them with a skill telling them

597
00:27:22,169 --> 00:27:19,660
to think for themselves is the

598
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:22,179
antithesis of indoctrination and is what

599
00:27:26,730 --> 00:27:23,770
every skeptical parents should strive

600
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:26,740
for in this talk i will discuss

601
00:27:29,220 --> 00:27:27,970
some of the ways by which you can

602
00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:29,230
encourage your children to become

603
00:27:34,110 --> 00:27:32,080
critical thinkers be warned though if

604
00:27:36,540 --> 00:27:34,120
you do a good job your kids will be less

605
00:27:39,330 --> 00:27:36,550
likely to respond well to because I'm

606
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:39,340
your daddy and I said so as it's

607
00:27:43,049 --> 00:27:41,050
probably obvious from the story I opened

608
00:27:44,940 --> 00:27:43,059
with I believe the best way to get your

609
00:27:48,419 --> 00:27:44,950
child to do anything is by modeling the

610
00:27:49,650 --> 00:27:48,429
behavior by way of analogy if you want

611
00:27:52,919 --> 00:27:49,660
your child to have good table manners

612
00:27:54,990 --> 00:27:52,929
mind your own not only will a child

613
00:27:56,790 --> 00:27:55,000
usually want to copy you you will also

614
00:27:58,680 --> 00:27:56,800
be well placed to commend them on doing

615
00:28:01,140 --> 00:27:58,690
the right thing or putting them on

616
00:28:02,340 --> 00:28:01,150
notice for doing the wrong thing if you

617
00:28:04,590 --> 00:28:02,350
make a habit of making unfounded

618
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:04,600
statements or having opinions or matter

619
00:28:08,730 --> 00:28:06,850
about which you know very little your

620
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:08,740
children will know and it won't matter

621
00:28:13,140 --> 00:28:10,210
how much you tell them to think for

622
00:28:15,860 --> 00:28:13,150
themselves so my rules for raising

623
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:15,870
little critical thinkers AR 1 model

624
00:28:20,370 --> 00:28:18,250
critical thinking show your children

625
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:20,380
that when a claim is made which requires

626
00:28:25,740 --> 00:28:22,090
supporting evidence you seek the

627
00:28:28,650 --> 00:28:25,750
evidence to say I don't know at least

628
00:28:30,390 --> 00:28:28,660
say it when you really don't know you

629
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:30,400
can do even better by working with your

630
00:28:34,890 --> 00:28:32,890
child to find out the answer it's a

631
00:28:38,130 --> 00:28:34,900
learning opportunity for you and for

632
00:28:40,620 --> 00:28:38,140
them three force them to think for

633
00:28:41,850 --> 00:28:40,630
themselves if they ask a question that

634
00:28:43,620 --> 00:28:41,860
you feel they can figure out by

635
00:28:45,419 --> 00:28:43,630
themselves ask them what they think

636
00:28:48,930 --> 00:28:45,429
rather than simply providing them with

637
00:28:51,450 --> 00:28:48,940
an answer for get them interested in

638
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:51,460
science show them how wonderful reality

639
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:53,410
is and what an extraordinary achievement

640
00:29:00,090 --> 00:28:56,080
it is that humans know so much with the

641
00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:00,100
help of science 5 above all be

642
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:02,710
enthusiastic if you groan before you do

643
00:29:07,650 --> 00:29:04,570
something with your kids they won't buy

644
00:29:09,270 --> 00:29:07,660
it with these 5 rules in mind I'd like

645
00:29:10,799 --> 00:29:09,280
to suggest some practical avenues for

646
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:10,809
promoting critical thinking in your

647
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:13,690
children as I mentioned in a previous

648
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:16,090
podcast I object to lying to children

649
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:18,130
and this includes lying to them about

650
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:20,410
cherished beliefs such as Santa or the

651
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:23,050
tooth fairy having said that most

652
00:29:26,130 --> 00:29:24,610
parents would recognize the value of

653
00:29:28,650 --> 00:29:26,140
such imaginary entities to their

654
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:28,660
children and want to avoid ruining a

655
00:29:32,850 --> 00:29:30,730
dream in favor of the harsh reality that

656
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:32,860
mummy and daddy have to go to work in

657
00:29:37,650 --> 00:29:34,690
order to finance Santa and the Tooth

658
00:29:39,070 --> 00:29:37,660
Fairy my experience is that there is no

659
00:29:40,870 --> 00:29:39,080
need to lie and it's quite

660
00:29:42,490 --> 00:29:40,880
possible to play along with a fantasy

661
00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:42,500
without playing an active part in

662
00:29:48,130 --> 00:29:45,710
creating it one of my children had a pet

663
00:29:50,409 --> 00:29:48,140
dragon which he named bragging for

664
00:29:52,330 --> 00:29:50,419
almost two years and while it's presents

665
00:29:55,090 --> 00:29:52,340
like that of most fire-breathing pets

666
00:29:56,799 --> 00:29:55,100
was not always pleasant we never thought

667
00:29:59,080 --> 00:29:56,809
to tell our child that the dragon was

668
00:30:01,960 --> 00:29:59,090
not real as it clearly fulfilled a

669
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:01,970
certain need instead we simply played

670
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:04,610
along we asked him to tell us about the

671
00:30:09,279 --> 00:30:06,890
dragon when the subject came up but did

672
00:30:12,159 --> 00:30:09,289
not make up our own stories or inflict

673
00:30:14,649 --> 00:30:12,169
our own ideas on him at a certain point

674
00:30:17,139 --> 00:30:14,659
he decided to get rid of bragging and we

675
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:17,149
stopped hearing about it similarly with

676
00:30:21,009 --> 00:30:19,250
a tooth fairy and another child they

677
00:30:23,169 --> 00:30:21,019
came a time when questions arose around

678
00:30:26,289 --> 00:30:23,179
who might really be replacing the tooth

679
00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:26,299
with a few coins rather than saying you

680
00:30:31,060 --> 00:30:29,510
got me mate it's me I chose to respond

681
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,070
with what I considered to be the best

682
00:30:35,590 --> 00:30:33,440
way to deal with such queries I asked

683
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:35,600
what he thought and soon enough he came

684
00:30:40,090 --> 00:30:37,450
to his own conclusions about the matter

685
00:30:42,370 --> 00:30:40,100
that did not stop him from using the

686
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:42,380
tooth fairy as code for I lost a tooth

687
00:30:47,259 --> 00:30:45,010
you owe me money for several more years

688
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:47,269
that experience with the tooth fairy

689
00:30:51,580 --> 00:30:49,970
taught me a lot I've since used the what

690
00:30:54,009 --> 00:30:51,590
do you think approach very often in

691
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:54,019
relation to the variety of topics for

692
00:30:58,690 --> 00:30:56,000
example the kids got a glimpse of some

693
00:31:01,090 --> 00:30:58,700
miracle cure on a tabloid TV show they

694
00:31:02,710 --> 00:31:01,100
mentioned it excitedly over dinner so I

695
00:31:04,899 --> 00:31:02,720
asked a few questions about how it was

696
00:31:07,539 --> 00:31:04,909
found and contrasted it with questions

697
00:31:09,279 --> 00:31:07,549
about how science progresses I made the

698
00:31:11,529 --> 00:31:09,289
point that revolutionary breakthroughs

699
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:11,539
do happen but ask them what it would

700
00:31:16,299 --> 00:31:13,370
take for them to believe that what they

701
00:31:18,519 --> 00:31:16,309
saw was such a breakthrough without me

702
00:31:21,159 --> 00:31:18,529
casting doubt about any specific claim

703
00:31:23,019 --> 00:31:21,169
or stating my own opinion they very soon

704
00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:23,029
realized that energized water or

705
00:31:26,889 --> 00:31:24,529
whatever the miracle cure was is

706
00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:26,899
unlikely to be a really exciting

707
00:31:31,180 --> 00:31:29,809
development I'm sure it's clear to all

708
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:31,190
this inner that I was not being an

709
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:33,200
objective bystander in this process I

710
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:35,690
had a very clear goal in mind and I had

711
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:37,760
achieved it but the important point is

712
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:39,440
that in order for the kids to reach the

713
00:31:43,139 --> 00:31:41,360
point I want to let me to get to they

714
00:31:45,370 --> 00:31:43,149
had to apply their own reasoning I

715
00:31:48,519 --> 00:31:45,380
guided them through questions but did

716
00:31:50,350 --> 00:31:48,529
not provide any answers the questions

717
00:31:52,790 --> 00:31:50,360
children asked are not always about some

718
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:52,800
grand mystery sometimes

719
00:31:56,570 --> 00:31:54,450
they asked questions about how our wide

720
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:56,580
things work in a certain way and this

721
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:58,050
can lead to a great learning experience

722
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:00,960
for example the child may ask why the

723
00:32:04,610 --> 00:32:03,330
moon changes from night to night it

724
00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:04,620
would be okay to say that the moon has

725
00:32:09,380 --> 00:32:06,960
phases but rather than explain what they

726
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:09,390
are you can do a demonstration using a

727
00:32:13,610 --> 00:32:11,610
spotlight for the Sun a basketball for

728
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:13,620
the moon in the child's head for Earth

729
00:32:19,130 --> 00:32:16,050
the beauty of it is that you won't need

730
00:32:20,900 --> 00:32:19,140
to explain instead of explaining ask the

731
00:32:24,380 --> 00:32:20,910
child to describe and explain what is

732
00:32:26,030 --> 00:32:24,390
happening sometimes a child will ask a

733
00:32:28,850 --> 00:32:26,040
question to which you don't know the

734
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:28,860
answer the best approach is to say that

735
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:30,480
you don't know and suggest you work

736
00:32:34,550 --> 00:32:32,970
together to find out in the age of the

737
00:32:36,110 --> 00:32:34,560
Internet you can probably make a start

738
00:32:38,210 --> 00:32:36,120
very easily by using a search engine

739
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:38,220
which provides a good opportunity to

740
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:40,290
also talk about the reliability or lack

741
00:32:44,150 --> 00:32:41,970
thereof of information of lean on the

742
00:32:47,060 --> 00:32:44,160
internet and how to verify such

743
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:47,070
information regardless whether you open

744
00:32:51,350 --> 00:32:49,170
a browser read a book or go to a museum

745
00:32:52,970 --> 00:32:51,360
to find the answer the experience of

746
00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:52,980
finding something out together with a

747
00:32:58,550 --> 00:32:55,440
parent is an invaluable one as he chose

748
00:33:00,200 --> 00:32:58,560
the child how evidence is sought it also

749
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:00,210
teaches them that adults don't know

750
00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:02,490
everything and by implication that they

751
00:33:07,010 --> 00:33:04,320
can be doubtful of a claim made by an

752
00:33:08,900 --> 00:33:07,020
adult there are also more effortless

753
00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:08,910
ways of exposing your child to science

754
00:33:12,770 --> 00:33:11,070
into critical thinking watching

755
00:33:14,450 --> 00:33:12,780
mythbusters is a fail safe way of

756
00:33:16,570 --> 00:33:14,460
spending an hour with your child while

757
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:16,580
not moving a muscle yet having great fun

758
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:18,930
it's so much fun that it's hard to

759
00:33:23,270 --> 00:33:21,510
believe how educational it is there are

760
00:33:25,790 --> 00:33:23,280
also lots of books about science aimed

761
00:33:27,770 --> 00:33:25,800
at children of various ages while most

762
00:33:30,050 --> 00:33:27,780
of them concentrated on the findings of

763
00:33:32,030 --> 00:33:30,060
science rather than on the process it's

764
00:33:34,370 --> 00:33:32,040
possible to find books that describe how

765
00:33:36,590 --> 00:33:34,380
discoveries were made but in any case

766
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:36,600
you can go back to step 2 and do some

767
00:33:40,370 --> 00:33:37,890
research together based on an

768
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:40,380
interesting factoid in a book there are

769
00:33:45,020 --> 00:33:42,720
also books like the time and space of

770
00:33:46,780 --> 00:33:45,030
Uncle Albert which describe difficult

771
00:33:49,490 --> 00:33:46,790
scientific ideas to a young audience

772
00:33:52,570 --> 00:33:49,500
reading such books together can be a lot

773
00:33:55,250 --> 00:33:52,580
of fun and you might learn something too

774
00:33:56,980 --> 00:33:55,260
while doing all those things the most

775
00:33:59,660 --> 00:33:56,990
important thing is to be enthusiastic

776
00:34:01,520 --> 00:33:59,670
the same in eight mechanism that allows

777
00:34:03,290 --> 00:34:01,530
children to know exactly which button to

778
00:34:05,630 --> 00:34:03,300
press to drive their parents of the wall

779
00:34:06,050 --> 00:34:05,640
works very well to find out when your

780
00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:06,060
fake

781
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:08,910
it if you're not enthusiastic none of

782
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:10,410
the ideas I mentioned will work very

783
00:34:15,620 --> 00:34:13,650
well over very long if you are tired or

784
00:34:17,690 --> 00:34:15,630
P occupied and are unable to muster the

785
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:17,700
required eagerness it's probably best to

786
00:34:23,210 --> 00:34:20,330
postpone the activity to another day and

787
00:34:25,220 --> 00:34:23,220
finally remember that you have to try to

788
00:34:28,250 --> 00:34:25,230
use reason in all your interactions with

789
00:34:30,590 --> 00:34:28,260
your young skeptic because one don't ask

790
00:34:44,869 --> 00:34:30,600
stupid questions can undo months of

791
00:34:50,740 --> 00:34:47,509
I'm Carly Sturgis and this is the

792
00:34:53,389 --> 00:34:50,750
skeptic zones token skeptic book review

793
00:34:55,909 --> 00:34:53,399
Jason Rosenhaus an associate professor

794
00:34:58,309 --> 00:34:55,919
of mathematics is the author of the

795
00:35:01,460 --> 00:34:58,319
Monty Hall problem the remarkable story

796
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:01,470
of maths most contentious brainteaser my

797
00:35:05,779 --> 00:35:03,210
original idea for this book he writes

798
00:35:07,759 --> 00:35:05,789
was that an entire first course in

799
00:35:09,890 --> 00:35:07,769
probability could be based on nothing

800
00:35:12,140 --> 00:35:09,900
more than variations of the Monty Hall

801
00:35:14,059 --> 00:35:12,150
problem to pick up the book in the first

802
00:35:16,490 --> 00:35:14,069
place is to know something of the

803
00:35:18,140 --> 00:35:16,500
problem already it is the rare math

804
00:35:19,779 --> 00:35:18,150
problem that finds its way into the

805
00:35:22,940 --> 00:35:19,789
front page of the sunday New York Times

806
00:35:24,650 --> 00:35:22,950
but the Monty Hall problem somewhat akin

807
00:35:28,730 --> 00:35:24,660
to the let's make a deal gameshow

808
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:28,740
achieve that in 1991 the heated argument

809
00:35:33,230 --> 00:35:30,720
that played out for 11 months previously

810
00:35:35,499 --> 00:35:33,240
was due to a Q&A column written by

811
00:35:38,420 --> 00:35:35,509
Marilyn Vos savant in Parade magazine

812
00:35:40,670 --> 00:35:38,430
now as a young person I enjoyed reading

813
00:35:42,410 --> 00:35:40,680
the Guinness Book records and I wouldn't

814
00:35:45,470 --> 00:35:42,420
be surprised if many young people still

815
00:35:48,289 --> 00:35:45,480
do and I remembered Vaas savants listing

816
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:48,299
in the 1980s editions as the person with

817
00:35:54,049 --> 00:35:51,359
the highest recorded IQ could someone

818
00:35:55,789 --> 00:35:54,059
with the highest IQ get it wrong what

819
00:35:57,819 --> 00:35:55,799
got mathematicians so angry that it

820
00:35:59,960 --> 00:35:57,829
ended up in the news could there be

821
00:36:01,490 --> 00:35:59,970
interpretations of the problem that

822
00:36:04,579 --> 00:36:01,500
aren't being addressed in the answers

823
00:36:07,490 --> 00:36:04,589
given here's one version that I've heard

824
00:36:09,289 --> 00:36:07,500
you are Monty halls game show contestant

825
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:09,299
and he presents you with three identical

826
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:13,410
doors one hides a car which you want but

827
00:36:18,829 --> 00:36:16,079
the other two doors hide goats neither

828
00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:18,839
which you want you pick a door but

829
00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:21,240
instead of opening it Monty opens one of

830
00:36:26,210 --> 00:36:23,910
the other two doors Monty knows of

831
00:36:28,759 --> 00:36:26,220
course where the car is and where the

832
00:36:31,339 --> 00:36:28,769
goats are and he only opens a door that

833
00:36:33,019 --> 00:36:31,349
shows you a goat in the case where you

834
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:33,029
happen to pick the door hiding the car

835
00:36:38,569 --> 00:36:35,490
he chooses one of the remaining doors

836
00:36:40,490 --> 00:36:38,579
randomly so you have one door open with

837
00:36:43,249 --> 00:36:40,500
the goat and two doors unopened

838
00:36:45,740 --> 00:36:43,259
including the one you picked Monty now

839
00:36:48,019 --> 00:36:45,750
says he will give you a choice you can

840
00:36:50,359 --> 00:36:48,029
stick to the unopened or you originally

841
00:36:53,210 --> 00:36:50,369
picked or you can switch to the other

842
00:36:56,269 --> 00:36:53,220
unopened door do you stick or do you

843
00:36:57,780 --> 00:36:56,279
switch now that's part of the story but

844
00:37:00,180 --> 00:36:57,790
as Jason rosenhaus foul

845
00:37:02,130 --> 00:37:00,190
it doesn't end there some of the

846
00:37:04,980 --> 00:37:02,140
chapters are indeed mathematical as

847
00:37:08,370 --> 00:37:04,990
you'd expect with unknowns XYZ

848
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:08,380
probability symbols and so forth he

849
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:10,810
writes that it's possibly more a book

850
00:37:14,490 --> 00:37:12,610
for undergraduates with the interest in

851
00:37:16,470 --> 00:37:14,500
mathematics but i would say that a keen

852
00:37:18,180 --> 00:37:16,480
high schooler could find a lot to enjoy

853
00:37:20,670 --> 00:37:18,190
in it even if they did ask a few

854
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:20,680
questions the book is a discursive

855
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:22,690
entertaining journey and very well

856
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:24,210
structured there are references

857
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:26,890
historical investigations philosophy and

858
00:37:31,140 --> 00:37:29,410
even pop culture ideas along with many

859
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:31,150
different explanations of the Monty Hall

860
00:37:34,860 --> 00:37:33,370
problem if you're interested in

861
00:37:38,460 --> 00:37:34,870
mathematics as a recreational activity

862
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:38,470
this will entertain you Rosenhaus wrote

863
00:37:42,930 --> 00:37:40,450
no matter how many times he brings this

864
00:37:44,850 --> 00:37:42,940
problem up at social gatherings he is

865
00:37:47,130 --> 00:37:44,860
amazed by the ability of a mere math

866
00:37:49,020 --> 00:37:47,140
problem to awaken such passion and

867
00:37:51,330 --> 00:37:49,030
interest the importance of thinking

868
00:37:53,670 --> 00:37:51,340
clearly about probability cannot be

869
00:37:55,380 --> 00:37:53,680
dismissed the Monty Hall problem is a

870
00:37:58,830 --> 00:37:55,390
book that reflects that passion and

871
00:38:00,750 --> 00:37:58,840
interest which is why I recommend it you

872
00:38:03,090 --> 00:38:00,760
can read the token skeptic book review

873
00:38:05,580 --> 00:38:03,100
at the official site of token skeptic

874
00:38:08,820 --> 00:38:05,590
org and of course further links and news

875
00:38:11,610 --> 00:38:08,830
will be found at skeptic zone wordpress

876
00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:11,620
com the official blog for the skeptics

877
00:38:33,809 --> 00:38:31,319
perth gets into the zone for

878
00:38:35,819 --> 00:38:33,819
myth-busting and more international

879
00:38:37,740 --> 00:38:35,829
itunes sensation and proactive online

880
00:38:39,870 --> 00:38:37,750
radio show for science and reason is

881
00:38:42,630 --> 00:38:39,880
presenting at the University of Western

882
00:38:44,519 --> 00:38:42,640
Australia catch the talks by Richard

883
00:38:46,769 --> 00:38:44,529
Saunders and dr. Rachel Dunlop on

884
00:38:49,319 --> 00:38:46,779
Saturday eighth of august from five

885
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:49,329
until 8pm at the University of Western

886
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:51,490
Australia at the wool now lecture

887
00:38:56,910 --> 00:38:54,160
theatre geology building it is hosted by

888
00:38:59,370 --> 00:38:56,920
the UWA atheists and agnostics society

889
00:39:02,370 --> 00:38:59,380
the Perth atheists and the humanist

890
00:39:04,259 --> 00:39:02,380
society of Western Australia you can

891
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:04,269
find out more details on the skeptic

892
00:39:15,390 --> 00:39:06,490
zone site and certainly head to the

893
00:39:25,450 --> 00:39:18,760
now it's time for dr. Rachel reports

894
00:39:28,329 --> 00:39:25,460
with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello everyone

895
00:39:29,740 --> 00:39:28,339
and welcome to dr. ecchi reports while

896
00:39:31,690 --> 00:39:29,750
it's been a while since I mentioned the

897
00:39:34,539 --> 00:39:31,700
anti-vaxxers in Australia and after this

898
00:39:35,890 --> 00:39:34,549
week I think it's time for an update so

899
00:39:37,809 --> 00:39:35,900
some of you may have been watching with

900
00:39:39,849 --> 00:39:37,819
amusement the cat and mouse games this

901
00:39:42,579 --> 00:39:39,859
week on the various Facebook pages from

902
00:39:44,410 --> 00:39:42,589
the anti-vaxxers as fast as they were

903
00:39:46,299 --> 00:39:44,420
filled up with evidence-based comments

904
00:39:48,670 --> 00:39:46,309
these comments will magically disappear

905
00:39:51,819 --> 00:39:48,680
soon after as they were deleted by the

906
00:39:53,799 --> 00:39:51,829
lunatic fringe anti vasas never

907
00:39:56,170 --> 00:39:53,809
fearlessness we have a tool called

908
00:39:58,289 --> 00:39:56,180
screen capture which has saved much of

909
00:40:02,260 --> 00:39:58,299
the material to be used at a later date

910
00:40:04,359 --> 00:40:02,270
stay tuned for news on this but then

911
00:40:05,950 --> 00:40:04,369
again it is really no surprise that the

912
00:40:08,980 --> 00:40:05,960
anti-vaxxers are desperately trying to

913
00:40:12,579 --> 00:40:08,990
save some sort of face and it seems that

914
00:40:14,109 --> 00:40:12,589
hypocrisy keeps coming I was informed

915
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:14,119
this week through a comment on my blog

916
00:40:20,109 --> 00:40:17,210
that Meryl Dory the president of the

917
00:40:23,289 --> 00:40:20,119
Australian vaccination Network poses as

918
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:23,299
pro-choice publicly only in order to

919
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:25,450
curry favor with the mainstream media

920
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:27,770
however privately she is

921
00:40:33,549 --> 00:40:30,410
anti-vaccination almost makes you want

922
00:40:34,839 --> 00:40:33,559
to put your face in your palm but then I

923
00:40:37,029 --> 00:40:34,849
received this insightful information

924
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:37,039
from someone who wanted to ask Tony

925
00:40:41,589 --> 00:40:39,410
McCaffrey about the results of her dead

926
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:41,599
daughter's autopsy since they don't

927
00:40:46,839 --> 00:40:44,720
believe pertussis killed Dana charming

928
00:40:50,529 --> 00:40:46,849
lot these anti-vaxxers and sensitive to

929
00:40:52,299 --> 00:40:50,539
boot so this week let's have a bit of a

930
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:52,309
laugh as we enter into the world of

931
00:40:58,930 --> 00:40:54,890
conspiracy theories subscribe to buy the

932
00:41:01,170 --> 00:40:58,940
anti-vaccine the first one being that

933
00:41:04,420 --> 00:41:01,180
swine flu is a synthetic virus

934
00:41:08,349 --> 00:41:04,430
manufactured by a secret Illuminati for

935
00:41:11,529 --> 00:41:08,359
the purposes of mass genocide this

936
00:41:13,359 --> 00:41:11,539
conspiracy theory goes like this the

937
00:41:16,029 --> 00:41:13,369
swine flu virus was apparently created

938
00:41:18,250 --> 00:41:16,039
in a laboratory to generate mass panic

939
00:41:21,339 --> 00:41:18,260
with a specific intention of forcing

940
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:21,349
everyone to have the vaccine and this

941
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:23,450
theory stems from a plot apparently

942
00:41:27,850 --> 00:41:24,770
uncovered by Austria

943
00:41:30,010 --> 00:41:27,860
and journalist Jane Burgermeister to

944
00:41:33,550 --> 00:41:30,020
cull the population with a deadly swine

945
00:41:35,850 --> 00:41:33,560
flu vaccine now Jane has apparently

946
00:41:38,350 --> 00:41:35,860
filed criminal charges with the FBI

947
00:41:42,190 --> 00:41:38,360
against the World Health Organization

948
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:42,200
the United Nations Barack Obama a member

949
00:41:46,150 --> 00:41:43,570
of the Rockefeller and Rothschild

950
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:46,160
families and other members of a

951
00:41:52,570 --> 00:41:49,850
worldwide Illuminati and Jane alleges

952
00:41:54,850 --> 00:41:52,580
that bird flu and swine flu have been

953
00:41:56,860 --> 00:41:54,860
developed in laboratories and released

954
00:42:00,460 --> 00:41:56,870
onto the public with the aim of mass

955
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:00,470
murder through vaccination now

956
00:42:05,260 --> 00:42:02,810
apparently the overall aim of the

957
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:05,270
Illuminati is to transfer control of the

958
00:42:11,140 --> 00:42:08,210
United States to the United Nations and

959
00:42:13,060 --> 00:42:11,150
affiliated security forces such as UN

960
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:13,070
troops from countries such as China

961
00:42:19,090 --> 00:42:16,880
Canada the UK and Mexico now Jane

962
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:19,100
Burgermeister has said that there is

963
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:21,410
proof that many organizations such as

964
00:42:25,690 --> 00:42:23,810
the who the UN as well as the big

965
00:42:28,690 --> 00:42:25,700
pharmaceutical companies Baxter and

966
00:42:31,780 --> 00:42:28,700
Novartis a part of a single system under

967
00:42:33,850 --> 00:42:31,790
the control of a core criminal group who

968
00:42:35,550 --> 00:42:33,860
give the strategic leadership and who

969
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:35,560
have also funded the development

970
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:38,330
manufacture and release of artificial

971
00:42:43,570 --> 00:42:40,640
viruses in order to justify mass

972
00:42:45,820 --> 00:42:43,580
vaccinations with a bioweapons substance

973
00:42:48,970 --> 00:42:45,830
in order to eliminate the people of the

974
00:42:52,540 --> 00:42:48,980
USA and so gain control of the assets

975
00:42:54,610 --> 00:42:52,550
resources etc of North America now

976
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:54,620
according to an entry posted last Sunday

977
00:42:59,590 --> 00:42:57,050
on Merrill dories blog a cabal of

978
00:43:02,620 --> 00:42:59,600
interbreeding families is seeking to

979
00:43:06,580 --> 00:43:02,630
impose a global fascist dictatorship of

980
00:43:08,140 --> 00:43:06,590
total human control now these families

981
00:43:11,770 --> 00:43:08,150
include the Rockefellers and the

982
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:11,780
Rothschilds their vehicle is a secret

983
00:43:16,420 --> 00:43:14,330
society network with operational

984
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:16,430
headquarters in Europe in places like

985
00:43:21,790 --> 00:43:19,010
rome london paris brussels and berlin

986
00:43:23,500 --> 00:43:21,800
now the Illuminati cable established

987
00:43:25,750 --> 00:43:23,510
global bodies like the World Health

988
00:43:28,060 --> 00:43:25,760
Organization the World Bank the World

989
00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:28,070
Trade Organization all designed to

990
00:43:32,890 --> 00:43:30,710
transfer power from the many to the few

991
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:32,900
and their goal is apparently a world

992
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:35,210
government a world central bank world

993
00:43:40,180 --> 00:43:38,210
currency and a world army and

994
00:43:42,970 --> 00:43:40,190
this web controls government's big

995
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:42,980
pharmaceuticals the who public health

996
00:43:48,250 --> 00:43:45,890
protection agencies such as the CDC and

997
00:43:51,849 --> 00:43:48,260
other protection agencies in the United

998
00:43:55,540 --> 00:43:51,859
States in short they control the entire

999
00:43:57,579 --> 00:43:55,550
medical system now according to Jane the

1000
00:43:58,960 --> 00:43:57,589
swine flu virus was created and released

1001
00:44:00,910 --> 00:43:58,970
with help from the rothschild

1002
00:44:03,820 --> 00:44:00,920
rockefeller-controlled World Health

1003
00:44:05,730 --> 00:44:03,830
Organization on top of the plan for

1004
00:44:09,099 --> 00:44:05,740
maths culling of the global population

1005
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:09,109
the Illuminati also planned to microchip

1006
00:44:14,079 --> 00:44:12,290
every man woman and child the microchips

1007
00:44:16,510 --> 00:44:14,089
will be delivered as part of the

1008
00:44:19,750 --> 00:44:16,520
vaccination and will allow everyone to

1009
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:19,760
be tracked 24 7 manipulated mentally

1010
00:44:26,290 --> 00:44:22,330
emotionally and physically but also

1011
00:44:29,070 --> 00:44:26,300
terminated when desired wow this is

1012
00:44:31,420 --> 00:44:29,080
pretty crazy stuff so just to reiterate

1013
00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:31,430
Barack Obama is the head of an

1014
00:44:36,490 --> 00:44:33,710
Illuminati planning to kill the entire

1015
00:44:38,950 --> 00:44:36,500
population of the world via a three

1016
00:44:41,530 --> 00:44:38,960
pronged vaccination program which will

1017
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:41,540
also inject us with microchips with the

1018
00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:43,130
aim of controlling the entire population

1019
00:44:48,940 --> 00:44:46,609
and killing us in a pinch the Merrill

1020
00:44:52,599 --> 00:44:48,950
dori did this about conspiracy theories

1021
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:52,609
quote while we are already seen as rabid

1022
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:54,890
idiotic fringe dwellers by so many in

1023
00:44:59,530 --> 00:44:57,410
the mainstream it does our argument no

1024
00:45:01,660 --> 00:44:59,540
good at all to bring in conspiracy

1025
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:01,670
theories which though we may subscribe

1026
00:45:07,150 --> 00:45:05,330
to them are unprovable another plot

1027
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:07,160
designed to assist in this mass genocide

1028
00:45:12,940 --> 00:45:10,330
via spread of swine flu is chemtrails

1029
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:12,950
now apparently chemtrails are being

1030
00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:14,690
sprayed to compromise the immune system

1031
00:45:19,450 --> 00:45:17,510
as a method for later large-scale

1032
00:45:22,870 --> 00:45:19,460
infection of the population with swine

1033
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:22,880
flu apparently an aerosol precursor of

1034
00:45:28,180 --> 00:45:25,730
swine flu which is then activated when

1035
00:45:29,890 --> 00:45:28,190
it comes in contact with the vaccine has

1036
00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:29,900
been put into the air and almost

1037
00:45:34,750 --> 00:45:31,730
everyone has breathed it into their

1038
00:45:37,180 --> 00:45:34,760
lungs chemtrails apparently are now

1039
00:45:39,130 --> 00:45:37,190
being frequently sprayed at the hours of

1040
00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:39,140
three to five in the morning with the

1041
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:41,510
specific intention of compromising the

1042
00:45:46,570 --> 00:45:44,690
immune system and apparently sensitive

1043
00:45:50,710 --> 00:45:46,580
people will react with sore throats and

1044
00:45:51,490 --> 00:45:50,720
flu-like symptoms wait flu-like symptoms

1045
00:45:53,890 --> 00:45:51,500
you

1046
00:45:56,020 --> 00:45:53,900
mean like swine flu symptoms does this

1047
00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:56,030
does this mean the Illuminati are

1048
00:46:00,010 --> 00:45:57,760
controlling these planes as well

1049
00:46:01,930 --> 00:46:00,020
spraying us with their manufactured by a

1050
00:46:04,810 --> 00:46:01,940
terrorism to make us all slaves to the

1051
00:46:06,460 --> 00:46:04,820
vaccine do you think the chemtrail

1052
00:46:09,070 --> 00:46:06,470
people know that the swine flu people

1053
00:46:10,870 --> 00:46:09,080
have infiltrated them hang on I live

1054
00:46:13,060 --> 00:46:10,880
under the flight path really really

1055
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:13,070
close to the airport oh that's it

1056
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:15,680
I've got to go find my element oh good

1057
00:46:36,690 --> 00:46:35,130
hi I'm Jason and I'm Andrew from the

1058
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:36,700
nonsense podcast bringing you a

1059
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:39,490
skeptical overview of news religion and

1060
00:46:43,110 --> 00:46:41,290
all forms of pseudoscience we're

1061
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:43,120
defending science and reason against the

1062
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:44,650
onslaught of medical and spiritual

1063
00:46:48,540 --> 00:46:46,480
nonsense all week we are busy

1064
00:46:51,210 --> 00:46:48,550
researching and debunking pseudoscience

1065
00:46:53,070 --> 00:46:51,220
but on the seventh day we listened to

1066
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:53,080
the skeptic zone check us out at

1067
00:47:02,940 --> 00:46:56,290
nonsense podcast libsyn com or search

1068
00:47:05,940 --> 00:47:02,950
for the nonsense podcast on itunes join

1069
00:47:16,220 --> 00:47:05,950
us now for drinking skeptically in the

1070
00:47:18,510 --> 00:47:16,230
think tank hello everybody clunk and

1071
00:47:20,910 --> 00:47:18,520
welcome again to the think tank i'll put

1072
00:47:24,810 --> 00:47:20,920
that carafe of wine down now I didn't

1073
00:47:26,820 --> 00:47:24,820
have a glass so I i'm actually using it

1074
00:47:28,650 --> 00:47:26,830
the clink that's all welcome again to

1075
00:47:31,050 --> 00:47:28,660
the think tank back in australia again

1076
00:47:33,300 --> 00:47:31,060
after our wonderful adventure in las

1077
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:33,310
vegas which we went to discuss briefly

1078
00:47:38,610 --> 00:47:36,250
later on welcome to dr. rachy hi Richard

1079
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:38,620
hello maybe a jet lag yet are you near

1080
00:47:42,660 --> 00:47:41,170
poor thing yeah I know it's tough this

1081
00:47:44,730 --> 00:47:42,670
international travel Iran's they give

1082
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:44,740
are you over your jet lag what it like I

1083
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:46,510
didn't have time to act it like ah there

1084
00:47:59,490 --> 00:47:49,810
you go Diane hello hi huge on over my

1085
00:48:01,320 --> 00:47:59,500
jet lag Joanne benim ooh hello Joanne I

1086
00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:01,330
which are you over your jet lag well you

1087
00:48:05,010 --> 00:48:02,800
know I travel from the other side of the

1088
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:05,020
bridge to get here every every week so

1089
00:48:11,540 --> 00:48:08,130
you know I'm jet-lagged by the time I

1090
00:48:13,940 --> 00:48:11,550
very good now before I start a little

1091
00:48:16,140 --> 00:48:13,950
play I'll put out we're currently

1092
00:48:18,180 --> 00:48:16,150
collating some of the best interviews

1093
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:18,190
from the skeptic zone weekend producing

1094
00:48:22,710 --> 00:48:20,290
a book which people can download or buy

1095
00:48:24,900 --> 00:48:22,720
from Lulu eventually if you'd like to

1096
00:48:26,370 --> 00:48:24,910
help us with that we need some people to

1097
00:48:27,630 --> 00:48:26,380
help transcribe some of the interviews

1098
00:48:29,820 --> 00:48:27,640
we've got a lot of help already but

1099
00:48:32,220 --> 00:48:29,830
there's quite a bit to do drop me a line

1100
00:48:33,460 --> 00:48:32,230
Richard at skeptic zone TV and in the

1101
00:48:36,339 --> 00:48:33,470
subject line

1102
00:48:38,109 --> 00:48:36,349
just put the word transcript and if you

1103
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:38,119
can help us out we'll give you credit in

1104
00:48:41,890 --> 00:48:40,250
the book when it comes out we only need

1105
00:48:43,690 --> 00:48:41,900
people still about five minutes 25

1106
00:48:45,010 --> 00:48:43,700
minutes some people volunteered to do

1107
00:48:46,990 --> 00:48:45,020
whole interviews or 10 minutes so

1108
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:47,000
whatever you can do would really

1109
00:48:52,180 --> 00:48:50,810
appreciate it there goes the machine in

1110
00:48:53,940 --> 00:48:52,190
the corner over there washing some

1111
00:48:57,359 --> 00:48:53,950
glasses I think here in the club and

1112
00:49:00,700 --> 00:48:57,369
also i'll quickly mention don't forget

1113
00:49:02,349 --> 00:49:00,710
in november this year in brisbane we

1114
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:02,359
have the australian skeptics National

1115
00:49:09,930 --> 00:49:04,970
Convention and they've called that

1116
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:09,940
breeze skeptic come on Brit skepticon

1117
00:49:14,770 --> 00:49:12,650
2009 that fast Richard I'm not going to

1118
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:14,780
say it fun just give to come 2009 policy

1119
00:49:25,330 --> 00:49:22,810
Thank You Rachel that's the numbing alum

1120
00:49:28,270 --> 00:49:25,340
it's a lady walking paths with a plate

1121
00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:28,280
of food and she's beeping oh no Meah

1122
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:31,250
lambda by now if you'd like to find out

1123
00:49:37,450 --> 00:49:32,930
more about the Australian skeptics

1124
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:37,460
National Convention Brisbane at 26 27

1125
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:39,770
and 28 or at least that around that time

1126
00:49:46,990 --> 00:49:42,970
november this year please go to ww

1127
00:49:48,940 --> 00:49:47,000
skeptics Comte you and find out more

1128
00:49:50,770 --> 00:49:48,950
about our national convention won't that

1129
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:50,780
be exciting dr. AG it will be exciting

1130
00:49:55,420 --> 00:49:53,570
cuz I'm doing a talk and I think you and

1131
00:49:57,849 --> 00:49:55,430
I are doing something for the Zoners

1132
00:49:58,990 --> 00:49:57,859
probably absolutely yeah yeah dr. Karl

1133
00:50:01,660 --> 00:49:59,000
cruising whiskey is going to be there

1134
00:50:03,550 --> 00:50:01,670
here's yes Carl's great yeah he's doing

1135
00:50:05,740 --> 00:50:03,560
in the keynote speech Ashley homeless

1136
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:05,750
Saturday so yeah should be great fun and

1137
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:07,970
a big thank you to dr. Rob Morrison who

1138
00:50:12,250 --> 00:50:10,130
came to speak to us here in Sydney just

1139
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:12,260
this last weekend I love rob morris

1140
00:50:15,940 --> 00:50:14,510
wasn't he great so fantastic we

1141
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:15,950
interviewed him a few months ago he's

1142
00:50:19,900 --> 00:50:17,450
the guy from the curiosity show of

1143
00:50:22,210 --> 00:50:19,910
course have a whole talk about optical

1144
00:50:24,670 --> 00:50:22,220
illusions it was actually really

1145
00:50:26,260 --> 00:50:24,680
interesting talk it was also that he had

1146
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:26,270
a fair bit of information about the

1147
00:50:32,530 --> 00:50:29,810
physiology behind illusions or in fact

1148
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:32,540
how they work most on physiology looking

1149
00:50:37,079 --> 00:50:33,920
at the colors that the rods and cones

1150
00:50:39,490 --> 00:50:37,089
pick up in your eyes and exploiting that

1151
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:39,500
224 Malaysians and he did quite a few

1152
00:50:43,660 --> 00:50:42,290
illusions on us where he have his

1153
00:50:45,370 --> 00:50:43,670
powerpoint presentation and show

1154
00:50:47,259 --> 00:50:45,380
something on the screen and get us to

1155
00:50:48,909 --> 00:50:47,269
stare until is it we exhaust

1156
00:50:51,519 --> 00:50:48,919
parts of our eyes and then flick to

1157
00:50:53,739 --> 00:50:51,529
another blank slide and you'd see

1158
00:50:55,449 --> 00:50:53,749
something on back of your retina colors

1159
00:50:57,729 --> 00:50:55,459
would change really amazing stuff me

1160
00:51:00,219 --> 00:50:57,739
what I found most fascinating about this

1161
00:51:03,009 --> 00:51:00,229
talk was that you know we have usually

1162
00:51:05,259 --> 00:51:03,019
the skeptics dinners we have one dinner

1163
00:51:08,349 --> 00:51:05,269
a year whether it's magicians there were

1164
00:51:10,899 --> 00:51:08,359
more booze and arms it was show any of

1165
00:51:12,669 --> 00:51:10,909
the magic shows that there was and it

1166
00:51:15,759 --> 00:51:12,679
was there were a few kids in the in the

1167
00:51:18,189 --> 00:51:15,769
audience and he was a wonderful to see

1168
00:51:20,559 --> 00:51:18,199
how he explains at a level at a very

1169
00:51:23,259 --> 00:51:20,569
high level the level where requires

1170
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:23,269
understanding physiology yet was it was

1171
00:51:27,370 --> 00:51:25,729
well enough phrased it was it was done

1172
00:51:30,609 --> 00:51:27,380
in a way which they which the kids

1173
00:51:33,339 --> 00:51:30,619
probably early early teens who found

1174
00:51:36,789 --> 00:51:33,349
very easy to relate absolutely now we've

1175
00:51:39,219 --> 00:51:36,799
had a little talk and at this stage of

1176
00:51:42,909 --> 00:51:39,229
the game were hopeful that we can ask

1177
00:51:46,449 --> 00:51:42,919
dr. Rob to come and speak for us at our

1178
00:51:48,009 --> 00:51:46,459
convention next year 2010 2010 when and

1179
00:51:50,259 --> 00:51:48,019
will certainly be letting everybody know

1180
00:51:51,939 --> 00:51:50,269
a lot more about that very exciting

1181
00:51:53,379 --> 00:51:51,949
convention but it's a bit of a long way

1182
00:51:54,969 --> 00:51:53,389
off at them and it's the one with su

1183
00:51:56,949 --> 00:51:54,979
we've definitely got yes we definitely

1184
00:51:58,809 --> 00:51:56,959
got s to you and this we probably hope

1185
00:52:00,549 --> 00:51:58,819
to announce some very big news about

1186
00:52:02,829 --> 00:52:00,559
that before long but don't worry

1187
00:52:05,589 --> 00:52:02,839
everybody you've got worried about a

1188
00:52:09,249 --> 00:52:05,599
year and a half to save up to come to

1189
00:52:11,319 --> 00:52:09,259
Australia and it'll be fantastic now let

1190
00:52:16,059 --> 00:52:11,329
me switch over to you Joe because I know

1191
00:52:17,859 --> 00:52:16,069
you've got a fistful of pages there yes

1192
00:52:19,870 --> 00:52:17,869
I picked up a few bits and pieces over

1193
00:52:21,789 --> 00:52:19,880
their lust well actually it hasn't been

1194
00:52:23,349 --> 00:52:21,799
very well what's amazing how much stuff

1195
00:52:27,639 --> 00:52:23,359
you can find out there in a matter of

1196
00:52:31,689 --> 00:52:27,649
days yeah well got a few things actually

1197
00:52:33,269 --> 00:52:31,699
one of them I've come from America but I

1198
00:52:35,499 --> 00:52:33,279
thought it was quite timely because

1199
00:52:37,089 --> 00:52:35,509
health care reform something that's

1200
00:52:40,329 --> 00:52:37,099
quite topical here in Australia at the

1201
00:52:42,370 --> 00:52:40,339
moment and I thought it was quite

1202
00:52:45,129 --> 00:52:42,380
interesting the Boston Globe and the

1203
00:52:47,739 --> 00:52:45,139
Wall Street Journal had both published a

1204
00:52:50,589 --> 00:52:47,749
couple of articles about some a bill

1205
00:52:53,139 --> 00:52:50,599
that's being proposed by a Democratic

1206
00:52:58,049 --> 00:52:53,149
senator by the name of Tom Harkin from

1207
00:53:00,430 --> 00:52:58,059
Iowa he's putting forward a bill to

1208
00:53:03,220 --> 00:53:00,440
prevent discrimination

1209
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:03,230
of alternative health practitioners by

1210
00:53:09,099 --> 00:53:07,010
insurance companies in other words at

1211
00:53:11,069 --> 00:53:09,109
present and I think I think we've got a

1212
00:53:13,300 --> 00:53:11,079
fairly similar system here at present

1213
00:53:15,910 --> 00:53:13,310
people like chiropractors and

1214
00:53:17,859 --> 00:53:15,920
acupuncturists and so on get a certain

1215
00:53:19,059 --> 00:53:17,869
amount of coverage under yeah under

1216
00:53:20,950 --> 00:53:19,069
health insurance and what they're

1217
00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:20,960
proposing is that there would be the

1218
00:53:25,420 --> 00:53:22,730
equivalent coverage given to these

1219
00:53:28,660 --> 00:53:25,430
practitioners as medical doctors would

1220
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:28,670
be getting and I just think this is

1221
00:53:33,069 --> 00:53:30,650
quite worrying and in fact what was

1222
00:53:35,620 --> 00:53:33,079
great was that dr. Harriet Hall who some

1223
00:53:37,660 --> 00:53:35,630
people might not from yes get doc who

1224
00:53:40,420 --> 00:53:37,670
some people might know saw her in Las

1225
00:53:42,550 --> 00:53:40,430
Vegas I lovely lady like she would have

1226
00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:42,560
been in town she's quoted in the article

1227
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:45,710
and she says that she's concede that LLL

1228
00:53:49,150 --> 00:53:47,450
inform members of Congress will elevate

1229
00:53:52,210 --> 00:53:49,160
practitioners of alternative medicine to

1230
00:53:55,569 --> 00:53:52,220
the same level as medical doctors and as

1231
00:53:57,010 --> 00:53:55,579
we have often said in other way she says

1232
00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:57,020
if we were shown to be truly effective

1233
00:54:02,170 --> 00:53:59,440
it would be part of regular medicine and

1234
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:02,180
that's something that you know is really

1235
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:04,250
a great concern and I think we should

1236
00:54:09,309 --> 00:54:07,490
really be aware of similar things that

1237
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:09,319
could potentially happen here in

1238
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:10,970
Australia absolute motivation for this

1239
00:54:18,250 --> 00:54:14,569
well i'm not mistaken Senator Harkin has

1240
00:54:20,500 --> 00:54:18,260
has already been being the initiator of

1241
00:54:22,210 --> 00:54:20,510
other piece of legislation around that

1242
00:54:24,579 --> 00:54:22,220
is not for summer remember hearing his

1243
00:54:27,010 --> 00:54:24,589
name mm-hmm the past with relation that

1244
00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:27,020
he's obviously a true believer days what

1245
00:54:33,099 --> 00:54:29,359
an agenda yeah he historically has

1246
00:54:34,780 --> 00:54:33,109
pushed this kind of bill before and did

1247
00:54:37,720 --> 00:54:34,790
where did you discover this information

1248
00:54:40,569 --> 00:54:37,730
well this came from the Boston Boston

1249
00:54:42,130 --> 00:54:40,579
Globe website which is Boston calm and

1250
00:54:44,079 --> 00:54:42,140
there's also another one from the wall

1251
00:54:45,790 --> 00:54:44,089
street journal as well right and so

1252
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:45,800
there's a couple of news outlets that

1253
00:54:49,390 --> 00:54:47,690
are talking about it but I mean it's

1254
00:54:50,530 --> 00:54:49,400
really there's such a big health care

1255
00:54:54,460 --> 00:54:50,540
reform going on in the States at the

1256
00:54:57,339 --> 00:54:54,470
moment and you know the the agenda that

1257
00:54:59,829 --> 00:54:57,349
that will let the agenda the the the the

1258
00:55:03,010 --> 00:54:59,839
theme they're pushing this along with is

1259
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:03,020
that by covering alternative therapies

1260
00:55:06,490 --> 00:55:04,490
that it will somehow relieve the burden

1261
00:55:08,650 --> 00:55:06,500
of convention that conventional medicine

1262
00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:08,660
is placing the financial burden that

1263
00:55:12,970 --> 00:55:11,359
conventional medicine takes up that

1264
00:55:13,930 --> 00:55:12,980
somehow they will be saving tens of

1265
00:55:15,819 --> 00:55:13,940
billions of dollars

1266
00:55:17,890 --> 00:55:15,829
by covering alternative therapies

1267
00:55:19,720 --> 00:55:17,900
instead of conventional remedy

1268
00:55:22,329 --> 00:55:19,730
conventional therapies I think it'll

1269
00:55:26,470 --> 00:55:22,339
actually d values those professions and

1270
00:55:30,069 --> 00:55:26,480
physiotherapists exactly really do value

1271
00:55:31,210 --> 00:55:30,079
hmm hmm you know something a little bit

1272
00:55:33,339 --> 00:55:31,220
about that Diane I guess in your

1273
00:55:34,780 --> 00:55:33,349
possession especially with oh my

1274
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:34,790
registered physiotherapist in New South

1275
00:55:42,190 --> 00:55:37,280
Wales and when I interrupt my back's

1276
00:55:44,109 --> 00:55:42,200
much better now I think that when a

1277
00:55:47,290 --> 00:55:44,119
chiropractor and a physiotherapist have

1278
00:55:50,349 --> 00:55:47,300
the same insurance in the same level of

1279
00:55:53,530 --> 00:55:50,359
I guess responsibility and registration

1280
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:53,540
it shows that that they are very similar

1281
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:55,010
in a way and they're not because

1282
00:55:58,349 --> 00:55:56,690
physiotherapist focus a lot more on

1283
00:56:01,000 --> 00:55:58,359
evidence-based medicine and treatment

1284
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:01,010
modalities impaired to chiropractors I

1285
00:56:06,370 --> 00:56:04,880
think in the population is then they

1286
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:06,380
also seen as equal whereas I think

1287
00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:08,450
they're not but actually I don't think

1288
00:56:14,260 --> 00:56:10,250
that they have the same responsibilities

1289
00:56:17,109 --> 00:56:14,270
I think they will have the same benefits

1290
00:56:18,550 --> 00:56:17,119
of being able to claim for the patients

1291
00:56:20,589 --> 00:56:18,560
to be able to claim from insurance but I

1292
00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:20,599
think in terms of the responsibilities

1293
00:56:26,140 --> 00:56:23,839
um I don't think they are the same I'm

1294
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:26,150
not sure insurance claims against

1295
00:56:29,559 --> 00:56:28,250
chiropractors or other alternative

1296
00:56:32,170 --> 00:56:29,569
practitioners will be treated in the

1297
00:56:37,450 --> 00:56:32,180
same way hmm it's not a level playing

1298
00:56:40,900 --> 00:56:37,460
field at all no it's not it's like what

1299
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:40,910
Simon Singh says you have to actually be

1300
00:56:45,250 --> 00:56:43,490
registered to treat animals in the hay

1301
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:45,260
but if you want to turn humans you can

1302
00:56:49,690 --> 00:56:47,210
just put up a post on your door tomorrow

1303
00:56:53,290 --> 00:56:49,700
and there's no problem exactly and in

1304
00:56:56,380 --> 00:56:53,300
fact you know in in in Simon Singh and

1305
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:56,390
Ed's out its excellent book trick or

1306
00:57:03,190 --> 00:56:58,640
treatment they talked extensively about

1307
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:03,200
the the issues of evidence and the fact

1308
00:57:08,740 --> 00:57:06,530
that you know what a person may pay for

1309
00:57:10,089 --> 00:57:08,750
treatment from an alternative health

1310
00:57:14,470 --> 00:57:10,099
practitioner where what they're getting

1311
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:14,480
is effectively placebo can often run

1312
00:57:21,670 --> 00:57:18,010
into you know thousands of dollars and

1313
00:57:23,140 --> 00:57:21,680
you know using a financial incentive to

1314
00:57:26,230 --> 00:57:23,150
back something like this I don't think

1315
00:57:27,340 --> 00:57:26,240
is valid at all just you've just

1316
00:57:28,930 --> 00:57:27,350
reminded me actually

1317
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:28,940
chillin Simon Singh this amuse about

1318
00:57:33,970 --> 00:57:32,570
Simon Singh Rachel yes people who know

1319
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:33,980
about the British Chiropractic

1320
00:57:38,350 --> 00:57:36,410
Association suing Simon for libel will

1321
00:57:39,700 --> 00:57:38,360
know that it was the whole case is based

1322
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:39,710
around an article he wrote in The

1323
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:42,170
Guardian called beware the spinal trap

1324
00:57:47,380 --> 00:57:45,530
back in 2008 and this is what catalyzed

1325
00:57:50,830 --> 00:57:47,390
the whole series of events that has now

1326
00:57:54,060 --> 00:57:50,840
led to Simon appealing the case on the

1327
00:57:58,510 --> 00:57:54,070
twenty-ninth of July sense about science

1328
00:58:00,070 --> 00:57:58,520
decided to repost the article from The

1329
00:58:02,620 --> 00:58:00,080
Guardian with the libelous sentence

1330
00:58:07,410 --> 00:58:02,630
removed and they've organized a campaign

1331
00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:07,420
with what sorry alleged Lyme incentives

1332
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:09,920
they organized a campaign whereby they

1333
00:58:13,180 --> 00:58:11,450
emailed lots and lots of bloggers from

1334
00:58:15,930 --> 00:58:13,190
around the globe and they put an embargo

1335
00:58:22,060 --> 00:58:15,940
on the reprinting of the article until

1336
00:58:25,150 --> 00:58:22,070
0001 2907 and so now you're able to read

1337
00:58:27,010 --> 00:58:25,160
it anywhere you like if you just google

1338
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:27,020
it i know that i've blogged it on

1339
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:30,490
skeptics book around it on the on this

1340
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:33,050
skeptics condo to you website yes well

1341
00:58:36,820 --> 00:58:34,610
there's a limited you know there is

1342
00:58:40,030 --> 00:58:36,830
indeed in fact there's a link to your

1343
00:58:41,830 --> 00:58:40,040
blog is that okay yeah yeah yep so

1344
00:58:43,180 --> 00:58:41,840
people can read easily is it will appear

1345
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:43,190
everywhere everywhere will be everywhere

1346
00:58:47,530 --> 00:58:45,890
yeah and this is I think you know a

1347
00:58:49,630 --> 00:58:47,540
little bit about this too but I think it

1348
00:58:51,340 --> 00:58:49,640
was just done so that people could

1349
00:58:53,380 --> 00:58:51,350
actually see what it was that they

1350
00:58:56,380 --> 00:58:53,390
catalyze the campaign is that right yes

1351
00:58:57,940 --> 00:58:56,390
and there's some argument that it might

1352
00:59:00,970 --> 00:58:57,950
have been okay to actually publish the

1353
00:59:03,690 --> 00:59:00,980
original article that they could have

1354
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:03,700
called it could have harmed Simon's news

1355
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:08,210
also it was decided to put slightly

1356
00:59:12,580 --> 00:59:09,890
edited the modifications are very small

1357
00:59:14,590 --> 00:59:12,590
yeah it's essentially the same article

1358
00:59:16,510 --> 00:59:14,600
yeah oh it's not only one sentence

1359
00:59:17,740 --> 00:59:16,520
that's been removed but these it's quite

1360
00:59:19,990 --> 00:59:17,750
short though the articles is

1361
00:59:28,089 --> 00:59:20,000
surprisingly short it's always it's as

1362
00:59:35,180 --> 00:59:30,830
alright so listeners can go to skeptics

1363
00:59:37,700 --> 00:59:35,190
com au or indeed if they look up or

1364
00:59:40,010 --> 00:59:37,710
skeptics book calm skeptics book.com all

1365
00:59:42,620 --> 00:59:40,020
again I link to me many many different

1366
00:59:44,750 --> 00:59:42,630
places all right we'll cross over to the

1367
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:44,760
other side of the table with Joe shuffle

1368
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:47,040
your papers and you come up with another

1369
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:49,530
fascinating story but this this is

1370
00:59:52,370 --> 00:59:51,330
actually funnily enough many of the

1371
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:52,380
things I've been looking at recently

1372
00:59:58,250 --> 00:59:54,960
have been prompted by the book trick or

1373
01:00:03,349 --> 00:59:58,260
treatment and one of them was the issue

1374
01:00:06,980 --> 01:00:03,359
of university education and I came

1375
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:06,990
across this article about a medical one

1376
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:08,970
of the medical degrees in the UK and

1377
01:00:15,589 --> 01:00:11,690
this is actually published in the

1378
01:00:17,450 --> 01:00:15,599
homeopathy journal this year and it's

1379
01:00:19,370 --> 01:00:17,460
called in at the deep end and intensive

1380
01:00:22,790 --> 01:00:19,380
foundation training and homeopathy for

1381
01:00:25,070 --> 01:00:22,800
medical students and one of the

1382
01:00:29,630 --> 01:00:25,080
universities in the UK the University of

1383
01:00:33,140 --> 01:00:29,640
Bristol as part of their curriculum for

1384
01:00:36,010 --> 01:00:33,150
their medical students carry appear what

1385
01:00:39,050 --> 01:00:36,020
they're reporting on in this article is

1386
01:00:42,050 --> 01:00:39,060
seventy-five percent of their curriculum

1387
01:00:44,180 --> 01:00:42,060
time is spent on medical training and

1388
01:00:47,329 --> 01:00:44,190
twenty five percent is on effectively

1389
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:47,339
electives and this particular article is

1390
01:00:51,589 --> 01:00:49,650
about an elective which they are

1391
01:00:53,750 --> 01:00:51,599
providing in homeopathic medicine as

1392
01:00:55,460 --> 01:00:53,760
part of a medical degree and hope you

1393
01:00:58,490 --> 01:00:55,470
perfectly homeopathic medicine whatever

1394
01:01:02,180 --> 01:00:58,500
and I Mia pathak medicine strikes me as

1395
01:01:04,910 --> 01:01:02,190
and that's good Leslie that's what we

1396
01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:04,920
get is an oxymoron yeah exactly um

1397
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:09,359
anyway they had they were really that in

1398
01:01:13,670 --> 01:01:10,890
writing this article they were talking

1399
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:13,680
about education and and a lot of it was

1400
01:01:20,410 --> 01:01:16,890
just about education models but what was

1401
01:01:22,250 --> 01:01:20,420
I guess worrying was that there were

1402
01:01:26,420 --> 01:01:22,260
they've run it over a number of years

1403
01:01:30,079 --> 01:01:26,430
and they they got these medical students

1404
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:30,089
to write Diaries about their experiences

1405
01:01:34,310 --> 01:01:31,890
and I have to say that you know in

1406
01:01:37,550 --> 01:01:34,320
reading about whom it the sort of

1407
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:42,420
what's the word nonsense I'm struggling

1408
01:01:47,250 --> 01:01:44,530
to haul but with enough word your boy oh

1409
01:01:48,450 --> 01:01:47,260
yeah just everything dissemination up

1410
01:01:50,250 --> 01:01:48,460
everything that's the basis of

1411
01:01:52,620 --> 01:01:50,260
homeopathy and we're in reading about

1412
01:01:54,900 --> 01:01:52,630
that I felt like I was I actually felt a

1413
01:01:57,990 --> 01:01:54,910
bit bonkers but doesn't it don't they

1414
01:01:59,700 --> 01:01:58,000
use like scientific words no they don't

1415
01:02:01,890 --> 01:01:59,710
you solve even guys we're not in

1416
01:02:04,260 --> 01:02:01,900
scientific words that best sort of bet

1417
01:02:06,150 --> 01:02:04,270
then just feel like made up words yeah

1418
01:02:12,180 --> 01:02:06,160
well I made up a lot of things on it oh

1419
01:02:15,180 --> 01:02:12,190
god Samuel Hahnemann see really big

1420
01:02:16,830 --> 01:02:15,190
fallen what are you doing here Samuel

1421
01:02:20,550 --> 01:02:16,840
well I just thought I tell you I made up

1422
01:02:23,370 --> 01:02:20,560
on these ribs and it has a good fan of

1423
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:23,380
the time I feel like a really sort of

1424
01:02:29,940 --> 01:02:27,570
high fantasy i feel it's quite strange

1425
01:02:33,150 --> 01:02:29,950
that's not in your favorite so you'll do

1426
01:02:36,660 --> 01:02:33,160
you like the cafeteria medic I put all

1427
01:02:38,460 --> 01:02:36,670
these roads into a high I mix them up

1428
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:38,470
and I took the matter since the cash you

1429
01:02:49,020 --> 01:02:47,770
know that's a good one anyway there's a

1430
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:49,030
couple of quotes from some of the

1431
01:02:57,330 --> 01:02:52,050
medical students who did this course and

1432
01:03:00,120 --> 01:02:57,340
one of them says let me find the right

1433
01:03:01,620 --> 01:03:00,130
quote my opinion has been changed

1434
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:01,630
dramatically on our field at homeopathy

1435
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:03,610
has a large role to play in health care

1436
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:06,490
I feel that it is a shame that it has so

1437
01:03:10,950 --> 01:03:08,410
much attack when it is beneficial for

1438
01:03:12,570 --> 01:03:10,960
many and then another one says even if

1439
01:03:14,070 --> 01:03:12,580
the tablets have no effect in the power

1440
01:03:15,930 --> 01:03:14,080
of homeopathy lies solely in the

1441
01:03:17,790 --> 01:03:15,940
consultation process this is only

1442
01:03:19,860 --> 01:03:17,800
testimony to the power of human kindness

1443
01:03:21,510 --> 01:03:19,870
and not something to be taken lightly or

1444
01:03:24,510 --> 01:03:21,520
dismissed in a randomized controlled

1445
01:03:26,670 --> 01:03:24,520
trial I wish the species diana's the

1446
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:26,680
nervous isn't about you and he's about

1447
01:03:33,420 --> 01:03:28,570
to faint she's gone my niche has gone

1448
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:33,430
bright reddish you might be Steve Steve

1449
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:36,330
novella spoke about this trial for

1450
01:03:40,790 --> 01:03:39,250
acupuncture did you get visit his

1451
01:03:43,460 --> 01:03:40,800
workshop on

1452
01:03:47,750 --> 01:03:43,470
alternative medicine peaked he was full

1453
01:03:53,390 --> 01:03:47,760
yeah went for about an hour used abused

1454
01:03:55,490 --> 01:03:53,400
my press pass and user press but so that

1455
01:03:57,800 --> 01:03:55,500
he was talking about he was talking

1456
01:03:59,720 --> 01:03:57,810
about this study that was done about

1457
01:04:02,360 --> 01:03:59,730
acupuncture we're basically they showed

1458
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:02,370
that acupuncture real acupuncture is

1459
01:04:10,100 --> 01:04:04,770
such a thing sham acupuncture which is

1460
01:04:13,490 --> 01:04:10,110
done by using basically using pins but

1461
01:04:16,910 --> 01:04:13,500
that do not penetrate the skin yeah and

1462
01:04:20,870 --> 01:04:16,920
another okay acupuncture that uses it

1463
01:04:23,210 --> 01:04:20,880
would do a random look at other places

1464
01:04:24,860 --> 01:04:23,220
and there was also one controller it was

1465
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:24,870
generally they did had nothing and they

1466
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:26,850
basically all of the groups that had

1467
01:04:31,580 --> 01:04:29,370
some kind of treatment it would did

1468
01:04:34,940 --> 01:04:31,590
better than the control group and they

1469
01:04:37,970 --> 01:04:34,950
did same so basically you know it was

1470
01:04:39,830 --> 01:04:37,980
Masebo quite clearly placebo yeah but

1471
01:04:43,940 --> 01:04:39,840
the way came out from the researchers

1472
01:04:46,250 --> 01:04:43,950
was that even sham even shall like you

1473
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:46,260
better works like the Occupy she is so

1474
01:04:51,860 --> 01:04:49,410
good even shower let's say so it's nice

1475
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:51,870
and you know you can but although I

1476
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:53,010
agree young me up with is different

1477
01:04:57,950 --> 01:04:56,010
because we do need homeopathy oh my god

1478
01:05:00,530 --> 01:04:57,960
it's cheaper than normal men because

1479
01:05:02,390 --> 01:05:00,540
we've seventy percent water so yeah are

1480
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:02,400
we doing a you're right we didn't drink

1481
01:05:09,260 --> 01:05:07,130
yeah oh speaking of which Cheers mm-hmm

1482
01:05:11,030 --> 01:05:09,270
actually that's interesting Joe because

1483
01:05:13,850 --> 01:05:11,040
i was sent an article today by a

1484
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:13,860
listener in fact about the use of

1485
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:16,170
alternative therapies in conjunction

1486
01:05:20,450 --> 01:05:17,850
with conventional medicine it was this

1487
01:05:23,690 --> 01:05:20,460
is from the advertiser from july the

1488
01:05:26,810 --> 01:05:23,700
29th few days ago where's the advertiser

1489
01:05:28,310 --> 01:05:26,820
it's in a delay it alone yes i listened

1490
01:05:30,530 --> 01:05:28,320
it by the name of clinton sent meters

1491
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:30,540
today it's entitled therapies of what

1492
01:05:34,550 --> 01:05:32,970
the doctor ordered and it's saying that

1493
01:05:36,860 --> 01:05:34,560
there are now cancer doctors that are

1494
01:05:38,090 --> 01:05:36,870
urging patience to take up complementary

1495
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:38,100
medicines in addition to their

1496
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:40,890
conventional treatment and this is

1497
01:05:44,660 --> 01:05:42,690
because they say that these soothing

1498
01:05:46,540 --> 01:05:44,670
therapies are said to help with side

1499
01:05:50,750 --> 01:05:46,550
effects such as pain nausea vomiting

1500
01:05:52,580 --> 01:05:50,760
fatigue and psychological distress and

1501
01:05:55,300 --> 01:05:52,590
yeah a nun help with over

1502
01:05:58,100 --> 01:05:55,310
what's that side effects cold this

1503
01:05:59,690 --> 01:05:58,110
doesn't help with that no I know that

1504
01:06:01,100 --> 01:05:59,700
marijuana is actually very effective so

1505
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:01,110
you can't actually prescribe marijuana

1506
01:06:06,430 --> 01:06:03,090
because to leave the drug but you can

1507
01:06:09,410 --> 01:06:06,440
prescribe homeopathy which doesn't work

1508
01:06:12,020 --> 01:06:09,420
that's pretty screwed assess the

1509
01:06:14,450 --> 01:06:12,030
efficacy for marijuana with nausea is

1510
01:06:17,260 --> 01:06:14,460
really strong that the evidence is

1511
01:06:20,900 --> 01:06:17,270
really strong yeah and also also lame

1512
01:06:23,420 --> 01:06:20,910
some people also makes them want to eat

1513
01:06:25,990 --> 01:06:23,430
more hungry yeah so it's used in

1514
01:06:28,820 --> 01:06:26,000
late-stage AIDS isn't it Joe some cases

1515
01:06:31,910 --> 01:06:28,830
no more coming normal you don't need

1516
01:06:34,370 --> 01:06:31,920
that it's in full-blown AIDS some people

1517
01:06:36,260 --> 01:06:34,380
I wasn't aware describe tomorrow wanna

1518
01:06:37,490 --> 01:06:36,270
to increase their appetite Kenny in

1519
01:06:40,070 --> 01:06:37,500
Australia can you prescribe marijuana

1520
01:06:41,690 --> 01:06:40,080
legal I don't know yeah I think you I

1521
01:06:44,210 --> 01:06:41,700
thought you think we can better cool

1522
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:44,220
medical marijuana do you suppose I did

1523
01:06:48,230 --> 01:06:46,650
good I don't think you can either I know

1524
01:06:53,570 --> 01:06:48,240
in the Netherlands you can but not

1525
01:06:54,970 --> 01:06:53,580
industry what is it stronger it will get

1526
01:06:56,990 --> 01:06:54,980
it from the doctor you can't actually

1527
01:06:58,640 --> 01:06:57,000
necklace you can actually go to the farm

1528
01:07:02,000 --> 01:06:58,650
soon you get higher grade marijuana then

1529
01:07:04,820 --> 01:07:02,010
you can just buy can I just go back to

1530
01:07:06,290 --> 01:07:04,830
the year that article again I just

1531
01:07:09,380 --> 01:07:06,300
wanted to refer back something we spoke

1532
01:07:11,540 --> 01:07:09,390
about on a previous some think tank a

1533
01:07:13,820 --> 01:07:11,550
few weeks ago we were talking about I

1534
01:07:16,490 --> 01:07:13,830
think it was during the all-female think

1535
01:07:19,670 --> 01:07:16,500
tank we're talking about there's another

1536
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:19,680
one is coming up by the way selectors we

1537
01:07:23,330 --> 01:07:21,090
were talking about medical training and

1538
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:23,340
we're talking about critical thinking in

1539
01:07:27,740 --> 01:07:24,690
the different health care professions

1540
01:07:31,610 --> 01:07:27,750
and I thought that this this particular

1541
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:31,620
article was just demonstrated that you

1542
01:07:37,820 --> 01:07:34,890
know it really is not a rule that

1543
01:07:39,260 --> 01:07:37,830
everyone who has particular training is

1544
01:07:42,530 --> 01:07:39,270
going to come out as a critical thinker

1545
01:07:44,690 --> 01:07:42,540
or with a scientific way of looking at

1546
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:44,700
the world so you know clearly these

1547
01:07:49,490 --> 01:07:47,490
these medical students who went to this

1548
01:07:53,930 --> 01:07:49,500
university and were exposed to this

1549
01:07:56,510 --> 01:07:53,940
homeopathic training when if this was

1550
01:07:59,630 --> 01:07:56,520
how they came out of it they either were

1551
01:08:02,930 --> 01:07:59,640
really not given a good understanding of

1552
01:08:04,340 --> 01:08:02,940
what nonsense it is or whatever medical

1553
01:08:05,780 --> 01:08:04,350
training it is that they're having is

1554
01:08:07,460 --> 01:08:05,790
not equipping them with the crew

1555
01:08:09,350 --> 01:08:07,470
thinking skills to look at what they're

1556
01:08:11,780 --> 01:08:09,360
being taught because I find it quite

1557
01:08:13,070 --> 01:08:11,790
worrying that any any future doctor will

1558
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:13,080
be coming out of their training thinking

1559
01:08:16,070 --> 01:08:14,450
that homeopathy something worth

1560
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:16,080
incorporating into their medical

1561
01:08:26,230 --> 01:08:19,730
practice yeah yeah hurry with you um

1562
01:08:28,940 --> 01:08:26,240
well this was this was inspired by a

1563
01:08:30,710 --> 01:08:28,950
report on today tonight a few weeks ago

1564
01:08:33,380 --> 01:08:30,720
thank you today show night for your

1565
01:08:35,980 --> 01:08:33,390
wonderful wonderful science based

1566
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:35,990
reporting hahahaha I feel really

1567
01:08:40,579 --> 01:08:38,880
inspired ah okay I'm looking after them

1568
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:40,589
in case you guys again yeah I'm

1569
01:08:46,579 --> 01:08:44,730
concerned such a deputation i did a

1570
01:08:49,480 --> 01:08:46,589
report a few weeks ago if you are

1571
01:08:53,059 --> 01:08:49,490
unlucky enough to catch it all about

1572
01:08:55,099 --> 01:08:53,069
cancer and how we are all getting sicker

1573
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:55,109
and sicker because of all the terrible

1574
01:09:01,490 --> 01:08:56,850
things in our environment making a

1575
01:09:04,430 --> 01:09:01,500
smoker can I talk song toxins and it was

1576
01:09:06,829 --> 01:09:04,440
a incredibly uncritical piece of

1577
01:09:10,490 --> 01:09:06,839
reporting which sort of cherry-pick bits

1578
01:09:15,140 --> 01:09:10,500
of bits of information without really

1579
01:09:16,610 --> 01:09:15,150
appeared to do much fact-checking and it

1580
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:16,620
was actually really quite easy to source

1581
01:09:22,550 --> 01:09:19,170
the correct data but I thought it would

1582
01:09:24,020 --> 01:09:22,560
be quite useful in talking about giving

1583
01:09:27,950 --> 01:09:24,030
people ways to answer people's questions

1584
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:27,960
about whoo and and yeah and you know

1585
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:31,170
health facts and so on to point people

1586
01:09:35,390 --> 01:09:32,970
towards some of the really good websites

1587
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:35,400
out there that they can access and one

1588
01:09:40,340 --> 01:09:37,920
of the organizations that most people

1589
01:09:46,990 --> 01:09:40,350
out there would no Australian certainly

1590
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:52,800
www.castleconnolly.com

1591
01:10:01,689 --> 01:09:58,240
hold that thought SW w dot Cancer

1592
01:10:03,750 --> 01:10:01,699
Council it's not on here well if people

1593
01:10:06,550 --> 01:10:03,760
Google yep if you google Cancer Council

1594
01:10:08,590 --> 01:10:06,560
it'll come up typically this one's the

1595
01:10:11,140 --> 01:10:08,600
new south wales website and they've got

1596
01:10:13,930 --> 01:10:11,150
a fantastic section on cancer myths and

1597
01:10:16,510 --> 01:10:13,940
facts it's not a Victorian this one

1598
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:16,520
specifically so much as well okay I

1599
01:10:21,189 --> 01:10:18,250
think they've all got their various

1600
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:21,199
separate sites but specifically that

1601
01:10:26,470 --> 01:10:22,610
this one was on the new south wales site

1602
01:10:28,030 --> 01:10:26,480
and it can answer in quite great detail

1603
01:10:30,459 --> 01:10:28,040
questions about things such as food

1604
01:10:33,370 --> 01:10:30,469
preservatives and cancer formaldehyde in

1605
01:10:36,090 --> 01:10:33,380
cancer and a lot of the myths that where

1606
01:10:38,950 --> 01:10:36,100
we've all heard such as you know

1607
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:38,960
deodorants and cancer I was looking at

1608
01:10:44,950 --> 01:10:41,050
this list early and I was most impressed

1609
01:10:49,149 --> 01:10:44,960
very cancer myths and facts and with it

1610
01:10:50,830 --> 01:10:49,159
okay this is the list of meth things

1611
01:10:54,100 --> 01:10:50,840
like air fresheners artificial

1612
01:10:56,770 --> 01:10:54,110
sweeteners Rajas bras is there anything

1613
01:11:01,149 --> 01:10:56,780
that doesn't cause well no no apparently

1614
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:01,159
not breasts breasts injuries diesel

1615
01:11:06,850 --> 01:11:04,489
electric blankets what like these are

1616
01:11:09,070 --> 01:11:06,860
all things that people claim faked hands

1617
01:11:12,100 --> 01:11:09,080
fingers over this flu ride microwave

1618
01:11:16,209 --> 01:11:12,110
microwave ovens lipstick stick loose

1619
01:11:19,870 --> 01:11:16,219
hands are yes Obama's lipstick what if I

1620
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:19,880
got nail polish super glue you shouldn't

1621
01:11:23,830 --> 01:11:21,770
make that in Richmond oh and my favorite

1622
01:11:27,669 --> 01:11:23,840
ones is the claim that surgery causes

1623
01:11:29,410 --> 01:11:27,679
cancer to spread throughout the body so

1624
01:11:31,419 --> 01:11:29,420
anyway I think that's a really great

1625
01:11:33,700 --> 01:11:31,429
site that if people wanted to as a new

1626
01:11:34,899 --> 01:11:33,710
comes i'm suffering find information for

1627
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:34,909
yourself or to answer other people's

1628
01:11:40,590 --> 01:11:37,610
questions there you go thank you James

1629
01:11:44,109 --> 01:11:40,600
day well I think anybody has a

1630
01:11:45,399 --> 01:11:44,119
last-minute post to mention I just have

1631
01:11:47,979 --> 01:11:45,409
one thing you know we said it maybe

1632
01:11:50,350 --> 01:11:47,989
we'll give this little snippets about

1633
01:11:53,649 --> 01:11:50,360
how to answer it's not exactly in line

1634
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:53,659
with that but a detection mechanism you

1635
01:11:59,320 --> 01:11:57,170
know how to detect wool I think this in

1636
01:12:01,120 --> 01:11:59,330
words that that appear you know if

1637
01:12:03,770 --> 01:12:01,130
you've natural you know the words that

1638
01:12:07,190 --> 01:12:03,780
have valid use outside of their own

1639
01:12:10,150 --> 01:12:07,200
of medicine or health but once you hear

1640
01:12:13,450 --> 01:12:10,160
it in turn in my in as part of

1641
01:12:17,020 --> 01:12:13,460
discussion about medicine or health

1642
01:12:23,450 --> 01:12:17,030
natural would be one yes energy yes

1643
01:12:26,570 --> 01:12:23,460
melons well be healing well-being what

1644
01:12:28,430 --> 01:12:26,580
other ones there's the words with a lot

1645
01:12:31,940 --> 01:12:28,440
of words with scientific meaning that

1646
01:12:34,940 --> 01:12:31,950
suddenly become when they when they're

1647
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:34,950
used sometimes even scientific the word

1648
01:12:41,300 --> 01:12:37,650
scientific itself yeah actually I think

1649
01:12:43,190 --> 01:12:41,310
the scientifically and clinically

1650
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:43,200
clinically proven clinically proven

1651
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:47,250
because clinically um I can't be wrong

1652
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:49,770
there is a phrase to look out for what a

1653
01:12:53,830 --> 01:12:51,330
hundred thousand people can't be wrong

1654
01:12:58,670 --> 01:12:53,840
yes demonios is addressed whales

1655
01:13:00,380 --> 01:12:58,680
anecdotes oh can I just evolved stuff

1656
01:13:01,730 --> 01:13:00,390
can I just mention too that we forgot to

1657
01:13:04,550 --> 01:13:01,740
tell our listeners that when we came to

1658
01:13:06,260 --> 01:13:04,560
the club tonight we found out that one

1659
01:13:08,930 --> 01:13:06,270
of our favorite psychics is performing

1660
01:13:12,250 --> 01:13:08,940
here tonight we're downstairs here and

1661
01:13:14,660 --> 01:13:12,260
upstairs the auditorium is SEO that's y

1662
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:14,670
if I concentrate hard enough do you

1663
01:13:18,230 --> 01:13:16,650
think he'll he'll be able to maybe

1664
01:13:21,620 --> 01:13:18,240
you'll fall from the ceiling into them

1665
01:13:22,970 --> 01:13:21,630
maybe we might have Diane and myself and

1666
01:13:25,340 --> 01:13:22,980
Richard went to see him a few weeks ago

1667
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:25,350
at the same actual same club and he has

1668
01:13:29,330 --> 01:13:27,450
a spirit guide by the name of Marcus yes

1669
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:29,340
now wondering for interfere with

1670
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:31,530
Marcus's energy tonight it is Marcus

1671
01:13:37,340 --> 01:13:33,810
isn't it yeah same as your husband's

1672
01:13:38,660 --> 01:13:37,350
name yes joy that is yes yes I wonder

1673
01:13:42,620 --> 01:13:38,670
how the shows going which it i don't

1674
01:13:46,100 --> 01:13:42,630
know he's been hi George oh I think

1675
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:46,110
we'll be having words I'm just I'm just

1676
01:13:51,290 --> 01:13:49,170
thinking though we've got five skeptics

1677
01:13:54,590 --> 01:13:51,300
sitting here I think that our negative

1678
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:54,600
energy probably is too but there is

1679
01:14:00,830 --> 01:13:56,370
something you need to know there's no

1680
01:14:02,780 --> 01:14:00,840
way we can make him worse nah he is

1681
01:14:05,540 --> 01:14:02,790
pretty bad on that psychic no I big

1682
01:14:06,540 --> 01:14:05,550
already Thank You Joanne Thank You Diane

1683
01:14:32,050 --> 01:14:06,550
thank you

1684
01:14:38,060 --> 01:14:36,170
so that's why you can't eat her I was

1685
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:38,070
just talking to the students how they

1686
01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:39,330
look I'm supposed to tell you about

1687
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:42,239
something the cosmic tea party I new

1688
01:14:47,300 --> 01:14:45,930
science podcast podcast hey who's it at

1689
01:14:50,060 --> 01:14:47,310
any rate it's about science and

1690
01:14:53,390 --> 01:14:50,070
mathematics sounds rather dull oh hang

1691
01:14:55,010 --> 01:14:53,400
on i open it it says here not done so

1692
01:14:58,939 --> 01:14:55,020
there you have it the cosmic tea party

1693
01:15:11,080 --> 01:14:58,949
podcast www cosmic tea party all or

1694
01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:14,500
Richard that was a very standard format

1695
01:15:17,830 --> 01:15:16,490
show but it was an excellent excellent

1696
01:15:19,660 --> 01:15:17,840
show which kind of proves that the

1697
01:15:21,430 --> 01:15:19,670
format's working I hope so and that's

1698
01:15:22,930 --> 01:15:21,440
what the survey the little survey we did

1699
01:15:24,700 --> 01:15:22,940
online people said they liked the format

1700
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:24,710
very they liked the format and you know

1701
01:15:29,230 --> 01:15:26,690
why cuz it's got variety and it's got

1702
01:15:31,660 --> 01:15:29,240
interest yeah and it's got your fabulous

1703
01:15:33,580 --> 01:15:31,670
music Oh every now and then yes but also

1704
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:33,590
must have been what great guests were

1705
01:15:37,750 --> 01:15:35,930
having on hero and and wasn't Joe

1706
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:37,760
Nickell fascinating what a character I

1707
01:15:42,190 --> 01:15:39,770
could talk to him for hours and hours

1708
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:42,200
and hours but don't worry next week our

1709
01:15:47,140 --> 01:15:44,930
special guest for in the interview spot

1710
01:15:51,430 --> 01:15:47,150
will be none other than Adam Savage from

1711
01:15:53,860 --> 01:15:51,440
the Mythbusters Oh a legend and a famous

1712
01:15:55,450 --> 01:15:53,870
person indeed Iran sir give from a grain

1713
01:15:57,640 --> 01:15:55,460
of salt caught up with Adam at the

1714
01:15:58,960 --> 01:15:57,650
amazing meeting and I can't wait to hear

1715
01:16:01,090 --> 01:15:58,970
the interview either right and he

1716
01:16:06,370 --> 01:16:01,100
actually let the skeptics and interview

1717
01:16:08,020 --> 01:16:06,380
him he did oh wow I know what's up

1718
01:16:10,180 --> 01:16:08,030
indictment that is but we're pretty

1719
01:16:12,220 --> 01:16:10,190
impressed we are so we can all look

1720
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:12,230
forward to that interview next week on

1721
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:14,330
show number 42 excellent so I guess

1722
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:15,890
we'll just leave leave everyone to it

1723
01:16:19,300 --> 01:16:17,570
and thanks everyone for listening and

1724
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:19,310
we'll catch up you the next week okay

1725
01:16:30,490 --> 01:16:26,770
you mean listening to the skeptic zone

1726
01:16:34,299 --> 01:16:30,500
visit our website at www scripting

1727
01:16:36,830 --> 01:16:34,309
zoomtv for comments contacts and extra